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Hello all,
Channel 4 have asked betty tv to develop a documentary series about what it's like to drive a car in Britain today. We're interested in examining the private parking industry, and in speaking to motorists whose cases are going to county court, or who are taking other action in response to what they feel are unfair charges.
If you'd like to tell me your story please respond on this forum,
Happy motoring!
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edited
What would be more interesting is the notion of doing away with decriminalised parking, and going back to a fairer more transparent way of enforcement,
Would you be happy with it returning to the previous Police enforcement? What difference would it really make apart from a trip to magistrates court rather than NPAS/PATAS? Tfl DPE is done by Met Police are you suggesting they are crooks? Most PCNs are given to those that take a risk or do not bother reading signs. Even on this forum the majority of posters admit being in the wrong ie parked on yellow lines, zig zags etc and are looking for a way out. There are very few threads on here where a contravention has been fabricated or the poster was parked legally and received a pcn.
Just because you disagree with a system does not make those that implement it crooks. It is the transparency of the DPE system that has allowed so many illegally parked motorists the luxury of a get out of jail free card that has allowed them to avoid being penalised. PCNs are like penalty points some drivers manage to get thru life without any yet others collect them like stamps. Does this mean they are the victims of a conspiracy or maybe something about the mentality and attitude of the driver?
Controlled parking is here to stay however much you moan and complain. What does the antics of the anti parking brigade really achieve in the long term? Does proving all the bays in a town are 'unlawful' because of wrong length dashes really achieve anything other than vast amounts of Council funds being spent re-painting them? Ok in the short term half a dozen drivers may get off PCNs for failing to buy a ticket/permit but in the long term money destined for other things is wasted.
Tfl gets taken to High Court for issuing to drivers who drove away who ruled driving away was not technically 'preventing from issuing'. A major victory for the motorist the likes of Neil Herron announced, until the TMA 2004 that is...whos laughing now?
We live in a country that spends billions fighting a war overseas thats killing thousands of innocent civillians and troops and support a US regime that detains foreign nationals without trial in Cuba yet some people seem to overlook this and would rather waste time and energy campaigning for justice for those that cannot be arsed to read the highway code!
Would you be happy with it returning to the previous Police enforcement? What difference would it really make apart from a trip to magistrates court rather than NPAS/PATAS? Tfl DPE is done by Met Police are you suggesting they are crooks? Most PCNs are given to those that take a risk or do not bother reading signs. Even on this forum the majority of posters admit being in the wrong ie parked on yellow lines, zig zags etc and are looking for a way out. There are very few threads on here where a contravention has been fabricated or the poster was parked legally and received a pcn.
Just because you disagree with a system does not make those that implement it crooks. It is the transparency of the DPE system that has allowed so many illegally parked motorists the luxury of a get out of jail free card that has allowed them to avoid being penalised. PCNs are like penalty points some drivers manage to get thru life without any yet others collect them like stamps. Does this mean they are the victims of a conspiracy or maybe something about the mentality and attitude of the driver?
Controlled parking is here to stay however much you moan and complain. What does the antics of the anti parking brigade really achieve in the long term? Does proving all the bays in a town are 'unlawful' because of wrong length dashes really achieve anything other than vast amounts of Council funds being spent re-painting them? Ok in the short term half a dozen drivers may get off PCNs for failing to buy a ticket/permit but in the long term money destined for other things is wasted.
Tfl gets taken to High Court for issuing to drivers who drove away who ruled driving away was not technically 'preventing from issuing'. A major victory for the motorist the likes of Neil Herron announced, until the TMA 2004 that is...whos laughing now?
We live in a country that spends billions fighting a war overseas thats killing thousands of innocent civillians and troops and support a US regime that detains foreign nationals without trial in Cuba yet some people seem to overlook this and would rather waste time and energy campaigning for justice for those that cannot be arsed to read the highway code!
Just been reprimanded for last post
just one thought, I dont make the rules up , they do!!
Would you be happy with it returning to the previous Police enforcement? What difference would it really make apart from a trip to magistrates court rather than NPAS/PATAS? Tfl DPE is done by Met Police are you suggesting they are crooks? Most PCNs are given to those that take a risk or do not bother reading signs. Even on this forum the majority of posters admit being in the wrong ie parked on yellow lines, zig zags etc and are looking for a way out. There are very few threads on here where a contravention has been fabricated or the poster was parked legally and received a pcn.
Just because you disagree with a system does not make those that implement it crooks. It is the transparency of the DPE system that has allowed so many illegally parked motorists the luxury of a get out of jail free card that has allowed them to avoid being penalised. PCNs are like penalty points some drivers manage to get thru life without any yet others collect them like stamps. Does this mean they are the victims of a conspiracy or maybe something about the mentality and attitude of the driver?
Controlled parking is here to stay however much you moan and complain. What does the antics of the anti parking brigade really achieve in the long term? Does proving all the bays in a town are 'unlawful' because of wrong length dashes really achieve anything other than vast amounts of Council funds being spent re-painting them? Ok in the short term half a dozen drivers may get off PCNs for failing to buy a ticket/permit but in the long term money destined for other things is wasted.
Tfl gets taken to High Court for issuing to drivers who drove away who ruled driving away was not technically 'preventing from issuing'. A major victory for the motorist the likes of Neil Herron announced, until the TMA 2004 that is...whos laughing now?
We live in a country that spends billions fighting a war overseas thats killing thousands of innocent civillians and troops and support a US regime that detains foreign nationals without trial in Cuba yet some people seem to overlook this and would rather waste time and energy campaigning for justice for those that cannot be arsed to read the highway code!
Just been reprimanded for last post,
fair enough, however I dont make the rules up . they do.
I dont moan about controlled parking its the people running it I question.
I live next to an area whiched was decrimmed, it went from 10.000 tickets issued to 140,000 plus in one year, you do the maths.
Sorry mods about the private parking companies, this is a [problem], why are they doing a documentary,.
Also clamping companies, they were made illegal in scotland, and are regulated here and why??
I live next to an area whiched was decrimmed, it went from 10.000 tickets issued to 140,000 plus in one year, you do the maths.
The wonderful thing about statistics is that can usually be used both ways. DPE was introduced because the Police no longer had the resources to deal with parking enforcement, the number of tickets does not indicate whether more or less people had parked illegally under either regime. So one could argue that its a success since 130,000 more people have been caught.
Imagine a ficticious town where store detectives had been illegal and only the Police had the power to detain shoplifters, how many would actually get caught? The Police would say it was low priority and assign 1 or 2 officers to patrol the town centre as a deterent catching one or two persistent offenders. The law gets changed and shops can employ their own civil store detectives. The result would obviously be a dramatic rise in shoplifters caught and prosecuted with the increase of dedicated security staff. Would that mean that shoplifting had increased or the shops are making vexatious prosecutions??
G&M I find it hard to believe that you actually drive in London, and have a life.
The decriminalised system has meant that reason has been thrown out of the window. PATAS/NPAS have no jurisdiction over mitigating circumstances, and the profiteer 'authorities' are demonstrably not applying due discretion. There is no place to go to counter this unless you want to make the massive effort and investment of going to the high court. I have been quoted various sums between £10,000 and £40,000. This is ridiculous.
I remember the days when you could actually speak to a magistrate, a living breathing person who could see when something was ridiculous.
Now all you get is a computer generated letter purporting to have 'carefully considered' your case which is mostly [EDIT]
The widespread understanding is that it has become revenue raising rather than sensible measures to allocate limited space/keep traffic moving or anything genuinely for the benefit of the public. (That would be us then). This understanding is not accidental/imaginary/paranoia or the result of selfishness or 'can't be bothered to read the signs'. Please don't be insulting to intelligent people who have suffered unfairness, often repeatedly.
I have a disabled friend who is acquiring PCNs daily because her blue badge keeps getting stolen (with attendant broken windows etc) and the council takes over a month to give her a new one. She keeps her wheelchair in the car, (a bit of a giveaway) and puts huge notices on the windscreen. What else is she supposed to do? The council will have none of it and wants her to pay the fines.
People get very angry when they are fined large amounts of hard earned money for insignificant errors or misunderstandings, or even being misled or worse. Even more so when those fines escalate beyond all proportion and are managed incompetently with dishonourable bailiffs engaged to enforce them even when procedural errors are made. There is no place to go to get proper compensation for this, or any way to make councils etc. behave better or ever get your time back for 'just appealing'.
Dealing with these people is like knocking your head against a brick wall, they just don't want to know, all they want is your money.
We could all roll over and play dead, but I'm still alive and kicking.
If you know better please advise. You seem to live in alternate reality, where is it?
And who do you work for? Because most of us here are just people with better things to do but this [EDIT] gets in the way.
Apologies for the two words that may be considered 'offensive' by some folk.
G&M I find it hard to believe that you actually drive in London, and have a life.
I have a disabled friend who is acquiring PCNs daily because her blue badge keeps getting stolen (with attendant broken windows etc) and the council takes over a month to give her a new one. She keeps her wheelchair in the car, (a bit of a giveaway) and puts huge notices on the windscreen. What else is she supposed to do? The council will have none of it and wants her to pay the fines.
No I don't drive in London I use public transport its much easier and cheaper but I do have a life (yes it is possible without a car!).
If your friend keeps getting her badge stolen surely it would be wise to invest a few quid in one of the security devices you can buy to secure it. Home - Blue Badge Protector Whilst I can appreciate your frustration having a wheel chair in a car is not a reason for avoiding a pcn, thats why they give out Blue Badges. Your friend could as far as the PA is concerned have used the badge in a friends car to go out and left her car without a badge. If people could just leave notes in the car saying 'I'm disabled and have lost my badge' the whole BB scheme would be even more widely abused than it is now.
Over 6000 Blue Badges were stolen from parked cars during 2004 - and that figure appears to be rising.
It can take up to six weeks to replace disabled badges, during which time owners are seriously compromised whenever they need to park their cars.
At £22.50 a hit, that's £138,000 (ex P&P) (in 2004) for the general public to solve a problem of the council's making.
Some folk must love these parking regulations eh G&M?
I'm not even certain that it would work on her almost 30 year old vehicle (hard to get replacement windows for). If blue badges weren't so sought after because the parking wasn't so impossible, it might not be an issue.
Some people don't have a choice whether they drive or not, so don't be so sanctimonious. Some people carry equipment for their work, some people can't walk and some people actually have the right to use the roads that we all pay for.
Draconian traffic regulations are not the way to address use of public/private transport. It is not what we are told they are for, nor should they be defended on those grounds.
Your friend could as far as the PA is concerned have used the badge in a friends car to go out and left her car without a badge. If people could just leave notes in the car saying 'I'm disabled and have lost my badge' the whole BB scheme would be even more widely abused than it is now.
Actually, she does have to use her badge if she is in a friend's car, and it presents yet another insurmountable problem. We have the ridiculous situation of having to drive from her home to a place where there is unrestricted parking and leaving it there before moving off together in another vehicle.
And she hasn't exactly 'lost' her badge, she is the victim of repeated crime. Where is that CCTV then?
If people could have a solution that worked, wouldn't that be brilliant?
The new DPE regs were missed opportunity.
IMHO what is missing are the following:
1) The ability of adjudicators to exercise discretion
2) A requirement for LAs and Adjudicators, in decisions, to distinguish the instant circumstances with other cases cited by the motorist.
3) The ability of adjudicators to impose penalties on Local Authorities who have a higher than average proportion of either decisions against or non-contests.
Those three things in my view would address much of the unfairness.
At £22.50 a hit, that's £138,000 (ex P&P) (in 2004) for the general public to solve a problem of the council's making.
Some folk must love these parking regulations eh G&M?
I'm not even certain that it would work on her almost 30 year old vehicle (hard to get replacement windows for). If blue badges weren't so sought after because the parking wasn't so impossible, it might not be an issue.
Why is crime the Councils making? Next you will be blaming the weather on them! People steal the badges to get free parking how is that the Councils fault? Even if parking was completely free they would still get stolen for the other benefits you get with them. If the Council sent new badges out within the hour of them getting stolen the cost of a secure badge holder would still be cheaper than the cost of a new window, or maybe you think the Council should replace that to?
Yes some people do have to drive but that doesn't mean they can park where they like. Maybe if drivers took a little more care over where they parked and actually read the highway code not so many of them would get tickets. How many threads concerning DPE tickets involve drivers who actually parked legally and got a pcn....very few. We have BB holders getting tickets on loading restrictions and loading bays because they didn't take the time to read the rules, we have mothers on school zig zags too lazy to walk, people parked on yellow lines because they didn't understand them or were 'only a few minutes' etc etc. We hear all these stories of crooked PAs yet how many drivers actually come on here and say 'I was parked legally why did I get a PCN'?
I currently live in a non CPZ residential area half a mile from my house is a small convenience store adjacent to a bus stop. The entire surrounding area is unrestricted and has mostly off street parking so you can park anywhere. But where do people park to pop in the shop? On the bright red 'Bus Clearway' with Bus Stop in bright yellow giant writing and a Tfl 'no stopping except buses' timeplate of course. Why do they do this....because they are lazy, selfish and ignorant, not because of draconian rules or because they had no alternative.
And not everyone finds this forum, or knows the bases of challenging tickets. Many people I know say "I know I could contest it, but it would take too much time" and they are correct.
PS to Mod.pt2537 Thanks for the edit - it looks better left to the imagination, my language was far too mild
The widespread understanding is that it has become revenue raising rather than sensible measures to allocate limited space/keep traffic moving or anything genuinely for the benefit of the public. (That would be us then). This understanding is not accidental/imaginary/paranoia or the result of selfishness or 'can't be bothered to read the signs'.
And this understanding comes about because of the LAs completely inflexible and unreasonable behaviour running DPE and fines out of all proportion for the contravention. For example £60 or more for overstaying by 10 minutes. (How is that selfish, by the way?)
It seems there is always a PA, sorry CEO, ready to swoop like a vulture, or a CCTV camera always ready to record the number plate of an unfortunate motorist as soon as a minor contravention occurs, but never a policeman when that same motorist's window gets smashed. This is why people are so pi$$ed off about DPE!
And this understanding comes about because of the LAs completely inflexible and unreasonable behaviour running DPE and fines out of all proportion for the contravention. For example £60 or more for overstaying by 10 minutes. (How is that selfish, by the way?)
It seems there is always a PA, sorry CEO, ready to swoop like a vulture, or a CCTV camera always ready to record the number plate of an unfortunate motorist as soon as a minor contravention occurs, but never a policeman when that same motorist's window gets smashed. This is why people are so pi$$ed off about DPE!
May I bring to your attention the British parking awards 2008
When I read about this I too thought it was a joke but apparently its
Not. Any way read on,
On Friday 7th march 2008, 500 assorted traffic wardens, wheel-clampers and multi-storey merchants will assemble for the "the foremost event in the UK parking calendar".
They'll be treated to a champagne reception, complete with can-can dancers, before the gongs are dished out.
Categories include Off Street Parking Team Of The Year;
Joined Up Thinking: The Innovation Award; and Parking Person Of The Year.
The £99-a-head bash is sponsored by, among others, the debt collection agency equita; NCP; and The Enforcer, described as "a quarterly magazine dedicated to the growing sector that enforces regulations, issues penalties and recovers debts".
They actually have parties now to congratulate each other over the utter misery they inflict on others.
But where do people park to pop in the shop? On the bright red 'Bus Clearway' with Bus Stop in bright yellow giant writing and a Tfl 'no stopping except buses' timeplate of course. Why do they do this....because they are lazy, selfish and ignorant,
I have a friend (yes another one ) that I drop off at her house, sometimes late at night in a fairly dodgy area. There is nowhere within a 10 or 15 minute walk that is not a 24 hour bus lane. Equally, late at night there are few buses. I haven't, but other friends of hers have received tickets from 'mobile units' at 2am for the same drop off. Do you think this is acceptable?
I can go on ad infinitum with many examples.
My disabled friend spent much of her time today writing a representation for a ticket acquired by another mobile unit, taken from behind her car, for being parked where she was entitled to with her blue badge (yes she had one at the time). Of course it would not have recorded the blue badge on display. We are told that they will look on these instances 'giving the motorist the benefit of the doubt'. What doubt? Why should she spend her very valuable time contesting this? Disability sometimes means limited life span - is this what she should be spending it on?
I have a friend (yes another one ) that I drop off at her house, sometimes late at night in a fairly dodgy area. There is nowhere within a 10 or 15 minute walk that is not a 24 hour bus lane. Equally, late at night there are few buses. I haven't, but other friends of hers have received tickets from 'mobile units' at 2am for the same drop off. Do you think this is acceptable?
I can go on ad infinitum with many examples.
My disabled friend spent much of her time today writing a representation for a ticket acquired by another mobile unit, taken from behind her car, for being parked where she was entitled to with her blue badge (yes she had one at the time). Of course it would not have recorded the blue badge on display. We are told that they will look on these instances 'giving the motorist the benefit of the doubt'. What doubt? Why should she spend her very valuable time contesting this? Disability sometimes means limited life span - is this what she should be spending it on?
and how about this for a parking attendant moron!!
A couple of tickets out the the millions issued doesn't mean the system is out of control!? I could just as easily post a few shocking stories about motorists but I'll leave the googling and cut and pasting to you. A target of 10 tickets a day is perfectly reasonable, you would have to be either blind or stupid not to see anyone parked illegaly at least once an hour.
Channel 4 documentary
, or who are taking other action in response to what they feel are unfair charges.
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Originally Posted by nero12
