Thread: Cygnet Finance Sold Us Ppi For Car Loan Whilst Hubby Was Off Work Sick Please Help Us

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hi all.

Here is our case/hell.

We bought our present car from Approved Car Finance, financed by Cygnet Financial Services Ltd (offices above car sowroom) in April 2005. My husband was off sick from work at the time. But did have every intention of returning to work.....he didn't.

We have had so much trouble with them since then. They are NOT helpful in any way, shape, or form.

Here's a bit of background information for you.

We were paying approx £460 per month for our car over a 4 and a half year period.

£7,900 CAR APPROX
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX
£7,400 PPI APPROX
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

My husband never went back to work, due to his father getting cancer and me not being well. He legally became my carer in Setember 2005, but was also caring for his father at the same time.

We claimed on the PPI, and were turned down because my husband gave up his job voluntarily and I can't believe this, but, because he had time off off work on past dates to look after me! Now how they would know that I just don't know. Because a doctor cannot disclose information like that. Especially if at the time my husbands sicknote did not state that was the reason why he was incapacitated. My husbands doctor never once wrote on a sicknote that the reason he was off work was to look after me!

We made a second claim a year or so later, as advised by a solicitor and were still turned down for roughly the same reasons.

After this I telephoned Cygnet and said I would like to cancel the PPI. I was told by all means I could do this but I would receive NO REFUND at all and would not be covered for the rest of the car finance term! Just a £25 good will gesture!

I asked how this could be, and was told that the money had already been paid by Cygnet, up front, to the PPI company at the beginning of our car finance (so I am assuming that this is one of the worst types of PPI being a single premium one)

We lost my husbands father in January 2007. Due to this we had to take a loan out for most of his funeral costs, etc, which put in more financial difficulty and we were no longer able to maintain these monthly payments.

Cygnet were aware of these facts and did little, if nothing, to help us. To be honest, I think we missed 2 months payments along the way. One of which was put to the back of the agreement and the other made us constantly under a "DEFAULT NOTICE SERVED UNDER SECTION 87(1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974" each month if we didn't make the required payments. Around the time we went to court we were served with a Notice of Seizure as we were in breach of our Bill of Sale agreement.

With help from a source off the internet we did find a way to get our monthly payments dropped, legally via a, "Time Out Order Application" which we were granted, in court in 2007 and our monthly payments dropped to £350 per month. Which we have been paying each month since and have not missed a single months payment.

Our circumstances are about to change yet again in a couple of months, for the worse, and we will not be able to keep up with these payments anymore, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. My husband is still my full-time carer and I have become more unwell. He is just not able to return back to work anytime in the near future.

We would like to make a claim, to have all the PPI we have paid, including interest refunded, but cannot afford to go to one of these companys that charges you 20%+ to act on your behalf. We would also like to see if we are one of the lucky ones that can have the rest of our credit written off due to something that Cygnet have done wrong. We HAVE DEFINATELY been miss-sold PPI.

As a footnote;

1. We weren't told that we didn't have to take out the PPI.
2. We weren't given the option of obtaining PPI from another source.
3. We weren't told that we wouldn't be covered of any pre-existing medical conditions.
4. The finance is a "Bill of Sale" hence, you can't give the car back after so many months into the term and not have to pay any more money.
5. If you give the car back at any time you are liable to still pay for it until the full term of the agreement is completed.
6. We have paid approx £12,500 and still ower approx £10,000

Please could somebody/anybody out there help us legaly to get some money back of these cowboys and help us to do something so that in the next couple of months we don't have to give our car back to them and still have to pay for it and have no car. We have struggled for nearly 3 years and just can't struggle with the last £10,000

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

Hello Cheapbangerplease,

You sound like you have been having a terrible time with this company

A few points really

I have a copy of the terms and conditions, Bill of Sale which has been stamped by the High Court, Policy Schedule, Credit Agreement, our full payment history. Did you already have these in your possession or did you obtain these via a SAR.?

Can you remember the date that you rang to cancel the ppi?

Can you post up what is on your credit agreement. You have put these figures, what was the interest rate please.

£7,900 CAR APPROX
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX
£7,400 PPI APPROX
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

Can you come back with this information please, we have to attack them from all angles.

Hi Hell

Thanks soooo much for replying to me

Here we go;

I have a copy of the terms and conditions, Bill of Sale which has been stamped by the High Court, Policy Schedule, Credit Agreement, our full payment history. Did you already have these in your possession or did you obtain these via a S.A.R - (Subject access request).? I aready have these in my possession and wouldn't know where to start with an S.A.R...do you think I still need to get one?

Can you remember the date that you rang to cancel the PPI? I'm sorry but I don't remember the exact date. But I do know it wasn't long after we got turned down for our claim on the PPI for the second time which was around the second week of August 2007. I phoned Cygnet themselves and not the PPI company.

Can you post up what is on your credit agreement. I'm not sure what you want me to post up sorry am thick on all this So I will copy the whole thing and delete all our personal info etc This is the original we signed on the day we took the car away. Which by the way has only been signed by us and not dated....does that go in our favour by any chance...lol

Am really peed off now, have been trying for the last hour or so to get a copy of the credit agreement on here I can't even copy and blinking paste it!!!!!! I've scanned it, deleted all our info, scanned it again, put it in "my pictures" on my pc and tried to get it on here via the URL and via Photobucket. But Photobucket won't upload it....grrrrrrrr...OK Photobucket has now accepted two photographs I have taken of the document. I have done the URL bit and here is what I get below.







You have put these figures, what was the interest rate please.

£7,900 CAR APPROX INTEREST RATE APR 45.9%
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX SAME AS ABOVE
£7,400 PPI APPROX - INTEREST RATE APR 42.3%
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hello,

Although I am not an expert on credit agreements, one thing does spring to mind, it is related to the APR. I don't know if that can be quoted on a ca. I will ask for a second opinion Also I feel it would be deemed a apr of 42.????% is an extortionate credit bargin

I would be of a mind to actually send cynet finance a SAR and also a request under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act and just see what they come up with and how good their filing is

Will come back with the links later

Send everything recorded delivery and keep everything in a file. You can check when they received it, by going on the royal mail website

Full S.A.R - (Subject access request) for PPI costs £10, and well worth the expense. They have 40 days (plus 2days postage) to comply

I, for one, agree with hellhasnofury - the prescribed term under s.60/s.61 of the CCA 1974 is the "rate of interest". APR is a "rate of interest" figure, but it includes fees/charges/compound interest throughout the entire term of the agreement, varies throughout and then calculated to an "APR" figure to let you compare loans similar to this one with it.

For me, APR is not accurate enough to meet the requirements of the Agreement Regulations 1983 for these reasons.

In fact, I'm challenging HFC Bank on 2 agreements and Barclays on an overdraft agreement on this very point.

What I can see from the agreement is that the Finance company hasn't signed it? Is that right, or is it just a bad scan/copy? If they haven't, you can argue it's improperly executed. This won't stop them asking for an enforcement order via the Court, but you can argue you were prejudiced by the enforcement due to extortionate credit bargain, the fact you've been missold PPI, charges applied and I'd assume you've been unlawfully Defaulted because of all this. IMHO, this would mean the Court may not allow enforcement.

What you need to do now is to stop doing their work for them - they need to provide you with a copy of their agreement, so we can see what they have or have not got. Send them this, which puts the debt in dispute; (amend to suit)

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Cygnet Finance, account number ******

s.78(1) (s.77(1) for a fixed sum) Consumer Credit Act 1974 request

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that Cygnet Finance have applied a "Default" against this account in my name. Further to this I don’t have a recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience by supplying the following documentation and information;

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a cheque for £1 in payment of the statutory fee.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under s.189 of the CCA 1974. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please take note at this stage, that any action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute”. If you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that this Default entry is removed from my credit file as unsubstantiated and the outstanding amounts are dismissed as being unenforceable.

Yours faithfully

Send it by recorded post, with a postal order - not a cheque - for £1.

Also send them this;

Dear Sir/Madam,

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1984 – DATA Subject access request

I request that Cygnet Finance provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including;

§ Details of all default charges for unpaid items and fees charged for managing the above account, which I have paid in the last six years
§ Copies of all original Consumer Credit Act agreements for each account held in my name
§ Details of all manual intervention that has taken place on accounts held in my name, with documentary evidence of such.
§ Details of logic involved in any automated decisions you made about me, or my accounts with you.
Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by Cygnet Finance regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act 1998.

I understand that Cygnet Finance is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.

I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter.

Yours faithfully

Again, send by recorded post with a postal order - not a cheque - for £10.

This is going to cost you £11 and some stamps, but this effectively puts the account in dispute. 12 working days later, if they haven't provided the agreement, you are legally not obliged to continue making payments.

If they reply with anything, scan and post it up here and the good people at CAG will be right on it for you.

Do not send them anything with your signature on it - read here;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ure-guide.html

Right, are you saying they provided you with a copy of the documents you've already uploaded here previously, but they do contain signatures/dates etc? What is the date of the agreement? What is the date of your signature? What is the date of their signature? This is very important.

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

PS Chris I have already sent off the S.A.R (Subject access request) today with both mine and hubbys signature on it

Oh dear - lets just hope this company isn't good with Photoshop!

The thing with the dates is interesting, but I was hoping their signature would have been dated before yours, as that would make the agreement prospective and therefore void under s.59 CCA 1974. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

I can see why you wouldn't want to send the CCA request.

It's a question of how far you are willing to push this now. If I were you, I'd write to them telling them they have an unenforceable agreement because of the issues we've outlined already - tell them you don't dispute the debt, but they can't enforce it against you because of all this. You can then ask them to accept reduced monthly payments you can afford, by offering them and see what they say.

Ultimately, you may need to go to Court because they could try to enforce the agreement against you. If that did happen, you'd have a good defence, IMHO, (along with help from CAG) but it just depends how far you want to go now. I can certainly see why people would want to avoid Court, but it doesn't bother me. (Having said that, I'm an old hand now - I even have my own parking space at my local county court, I've been there that often! )

Originally Posted by car2403

Oh dear - lets just hope this company isn't good with Photoshop!

The thing with the dates is interesting, but I was hoping their signature would have been dated before yours, as that would make the agreement prospective and therefore void under s.59 CCA 1974. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

I can see why you wouldn't want to send the CCA request.

It's a question of how far you are willing to push this now. If I were you, I'd write to them telling them they have an unenforceable agreement because of the issues we've outlined already - tell them you don't dispute the debt, but they can't enforce it against you because of all this. You can then ask them to accept reduced monthly payments you can afford, by offering them and see what they say.

Ultimately, you may need to go to Court because they could try to enforce the agreement against you. If that did happen, you'd have a good defence, IMHO, (along with help from CAG) but it just depends how far you want to go now. I can certainly see why people would want to avoid Court, but it doesn't bother me. (Having said that, I'm an old hand now - I even have my own parking space at my local county court, I've been there that often! )

Hello,

Thanks Car for your valuable input, your are a star:grin:

Well, it is amazing what a can of worms can be opened. Now before you go off on a tangent. Think very carefully about what you want to achieve here. Refund of PPI and ppi interest and a little bit of contractual interest to boot, your first priority:grin: .

Work out your figures and send them a preliminary letter asking for it back, perhaps mention a little bit about your recent revelations, but not too much about enforceability (that can be the ace up your sleeve, for later)and see what they come back with,

If you like you can post up your letter for comments before you send it:grin:

I would be thinking positive, but still be prepared for a bit of a fight, they really don't like to give you and money back

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hi all.

Have finally got my S.A.R back off Cygnet Finance....only 6 days before the due date!

I have about 200 pages of stuff and I have no idea what I'm looking for....could somebody tell me what I need to do next please, asap as my next payment is due in a couple of weeks time and I'm having extreme financial difficulties now and everything is going from bad, to worse, to chronic.

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

Hello cbp

Their should be a list for abbreviations and what they mean. You will be looking for anything relating to the loan, interest applied and the PPI and the interest applied:grin: Any rebates etc,The more you read it the more you will understand it

Anything you don't understand, post up to see if we can decifer it

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hi all/Hell.

We are now one step from having our car taken away from us now as we just can't find this months payment...it's just not possilbe.

I need to get a letter sent off ASAP to start the ball rolling to reclaim my PPI.

Here is a draft of the letter.

MR AND MRS X
ADDRESS ONE
ADDRESS TWO
ADDRESS THREE
ADDRESS FOUR

The Complaints Department
CYGNET FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD
96 WHARF STREET
DUKINFIELD
CHESHIRE
SK16 4JF

Dear Sir/Madam,

Ref: [Your PPI policy number]

We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus interest paid.

We took out £XXXXX worth of car finance with yourselves, at your Dukinfield Branch on 19th XXXXX.XX 200X and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost us an extra £XXXX.XX over the life of the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is XXXXX The total amount of our premiums plus interest is £ XXXX.XX.
The reasons for reclaiming are:
I, being Mr X, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on sick leave.
Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us.
At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI by yourselves.
At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere.
It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us
I,being Mr X, am unemployed and therefore will not be eligible for any payments from the PPI if I find myself unable to meet my debt repayments.

Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to that customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement.

We are requesting a full refund of all our insurance payments, plus interest, which total £XXXX.XX.

If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman and indeed through the courts.

Yours sincerely


[Your signature]

MR AND MRS X

Is this ok?

Also I have no idea how to work out the interest on the PPI that I have already paid.

I have paid approximately £4900 PPI, out of the £7000++ or so total.

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

PS Would be grateful for really speedy help now as am getting really desperate

Hello Cbp,

Is the ppi still running, if so write and cancel it, they will rebate the remaining unpaid portion of the ppi back into the loan, this will reduce the amount owing

There are spreadsheets, in the bank template letter section on the main page of the forum, have a bash, shout if you encounter a problem

There appears to be a few issues with your complaint.

Mis-sold ppi
extortionate credit bargain, the interest rate they applied.
The credit agreement apr stated (need more input here)

Now there is a process they must follow before they can repossess your car and default you.

I personally would be sending them a more detailed letter, stating some of these facts if you are desperate, Put the account into dispute