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I’m keeping the story brief but in the below case would it be a debator- creditor-supplier agreement. Some people say the argument in valid and there is consumer protection - under the CCA, the credit providers are jointly liable for the delivery of the contract which is the sole purpose of a CDL. So the Credit provider can not continue to collect the money owed for a service no longer provided, but that the student can sue them to get back the monies already paid for the broken contract
However Barclays say it not the case. I am a little confused whether Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
I applied to a job advertised by TP (the training provider)
I went for a ‘interview’ and was hard sold a course/programme through lies, false promises by TP
TP stated the course was part of a government training scheme and promoted Barclays Bank (B) CDL.
It was TP practice to introduce individuals needing finance to B
TP also has a number of B CDL loan forms (most likely the Learning skills council supplied)
TP is also stated in the ‘terms and conditions’/information pack, to use B.
TP is also a business client of B, all B CDLs was paid directly into TP Barclays Bank account, so all the funds given out by Barclays remained with Barclays. I wonder about the extras the TP Barclays Bank account would have got?
If TP had never promoted B CDLs the majority of ‘students’ would have never know about theses loans.
CDLs are publicised via the CDL website on the Department's website, by learning providers, and participating banks. Information is also available via learndirect, Learning and Skills Councils, Information Advice and Guidance partnerships and various publications , the BBC's Career Essentials booklet and CDL advertising posters sent to learning providers . Margaret Hodge Secretary of State for Education and Skills stated this in 2004. ( the time I took out CDL)
Barclay argument partly relies that Learning provider do not promote CDLs to students, which is untrue as the TP promoted Barclays. B does no active marketing of CDLs but rely on passive supply of business from the TPs.
I had no choice but to agree for B to pay all course fees up front to the TP directly. And then the company closed down. The Banks states that a debtor-creditor-supplier arrangements does not apply.
Barclays Bank are in partnership with Learning Skills Council .
The TP has to sign conditions with the LSC to accept CDL from the Banks
and for the Banks to give loan to TP. And the Bank to have to check the TP i of the CDL register before givingout the loan to them.
Is there any way that my example/experience is based on a debtor-creditor-supplier arrangements. Or is it a debtor-creditor.
Or are there any other Consumer protection laws available.
The New article below - relates to the company I was with.
MPs will investigate the scandal of failed firms that left clients with huge debts and no tuition
A government-backed student loan scheme has been targeted by fraudsters, leaving victims with no tuition and debts totalling millions of pounds.
the government failed to vet companies registered for the Career Development Loan (CDL) scheme, allowing criminals and failing businesses to profit at the expense of students.
Banks handing out the loans and industry leaders have expressed dismay that companies with poor track records were allowed to join the scheme. A source inside one bank admitted that it would consider pulling out of the scheme if procedures were not improved.
A whistleblower who worked at four of the companies admitted they used the fact they were 'government-backed' to hard-sell courses and then accrue money through loans. Once the courses began they did not care if the students dropped out, he said, with some having a 90 per cent
The council was forced into removing Britannia IT Training from its register after student complaints. The firm went into administration last October( 2006) leaving behind 600 students without training - 424 of them had loans to repay totalling around £2.5m
.
Sheerman said it was wrong that people left without training should have to repay the loans: 'The government and the LSC should be responsible.' However, he highlighted the fact that many others had benefited from the scheme.
COMPANY COLLAPSE COSTS STUDENTS £1 MILLION
More than 600 students in London and the Home Counties are owed sums up to £8,000, totalling over £1 million after the collapse of Britannia IT Training of Belsize Road, Kilburn, London.
The company offered students a range of certified IT courses linked to such well-known names as Microsoft and Cisco and supported with loans made under the Learning and Skills Council’s (LSC) Career Development Loans (CDL) scheme.
According to the administrators report filed at Companies House the company’s CDL registration was withdrawn by LSC in November 2005 after concerns arose over the way Britannia operated the scheme, an aspect Britannia blame for their collapse.
Britannia’s entry in the current Training Managers Year Book claims a turnover of £6 million and over 100 employees. In fact they employed 23 and in the year ending 31 March 2005 their turnover was £2.37 million, falling to £1.6 million in the year ending 31 March 2006. The current deficiency, according to the official figures is £1.8 million, most of which is owed to former students on courses. (from CDLs)
By the looks of the article, it's quite old so I'd expect you'd have heard if anyone else was made responsible for money owed to students after the collapse of Britannia.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
As you infer, it is a complex case and given the number of victims there is possibly a law firm looking at some kind of class action litigation. From what you say your contract was with the provider of the training/education but the agreement for services brings in both the lender (Barclays) and the Government hence you potentially have a case against all three.
My advice would be to:
(i) Petition you MP, cite the fact that you would have not have taken the course (and investment risk) had the scheme not been blatantly backed by the Government
(ii) Send personal letters every month to the main board of Barclays Bank and their new shareholders in the Gulf.
(iii) Write to every newspaper, watchdog and any consumer forum that exists and ensure that this gets maximum exposure.
Look at what just happened with the BBC and Ross & Brand - not many people were interested until it was on the news then the complaints rose by thousands per day, they did not listen to the broadcast but obtained the information later and reacted.
I would have done the same as you, taken this as a low-risk decision - Government backed, major bank, contractually linked and surely safe!
I think you will win but have to either join a class action campaign or start one.
Thank you for the replies. I will send a couple of letters to the CEO. and try and get in contact with the other students.
The media/ investigation was carried out between 2007 to the start of 2008.
Quote:
Providers slashed
Last summer there were more than 2,000 companies registered to receive Career Development Loans. However, once the Learning and Skills Council underwent a slightly more stringent process of checking and asked all existing providers to re-register, just 700 were left... that is a reduction of around 75%. BBC NEWS | Programmes | Politics Show | Hopes over future career loans
This loan in not reported on my credit rating, and Barclays have not chase me for any repayment despite not paying anything for over 18 months (i used up my savings for around 6 months)- then ran out of funds so had to stop repayments.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Hi Folks, newbie with every sympathy for the above tales so sorry this is longwinded.
My first post is about a very personal experience retold in the hope it warns or helps others:
Britannia IT are/were a bunch of edits and no doubt the edited owners are still out there I defy them to sue me for defamation, in fact I'd welcome it as it would drag them into court. I'd be like the proverbial dog with two tales if there were ever a chance for some payback, even 4 years on. I burn with indignation at the way these cowboys caught me at a low moment and fleeced my family and I of more than 7 grand.
My Britannia IT tale of woe for what its worth:
I was contacted via telephone and email in late October 2004 by an agency promoting the Britannia Academy. At the time I was actively seeking employment as my previous position had been made redundant.
I attended at their offices on 4 November 2004 initially to see an advisor who, when not available passed the matter to another who outlined Britannia’s products and gave me various forms fill in.
At this stage I was not given all necessary information required by the Learning and Skills Council:
i) I was only given the choice of Barclays Career Development Loans whereas on the LSC's website it clearly states that learning providers should offer a choice of 3 banks including Barclays, The Co-operative Bank or The Royal Bank of Scotland.
ii) I never received an Application Pack. In fact until Barclays sent us a copy I had never seen one.
On 15 November 2004 I received provisional approval from Barclays Career Development Loans and some forms for completion. I contacted Britannia's office and made an appointment with the "advisor" to come in and complete the forms.
I attended at Britannia on 17 November 2004 and met the "advisor" he told me that he was going to try and get me into an induction class but it was full. He then took me for a tour of the campus and back to the cubicle where the initial meeting had taken place and proceeded to reiterate the benefits of the course, this basically consisted of flipping over some flowchart diagrams and student conditions. The "advisor" was with me for approximately 30 minutes, I was given a textbook for A+ Complete Course and told that although there was no place for me on this particular module at present I would be doing it at a later date as part of the course. I was then moved on to the reception area and met a female member of the customer service staff and was told that the first module of the course would start in January.
I came out of the meeting somewhat perplexed and confused. I started to feel I had been bounced into the course and basically given the hard sell, I began to have second thoughts about the training course not least because it seemed to me that a reputable academic institution would have treated me in a less offhand manner.
I did some research into Britannia's courses. I found that there were a lot of people dissatisfied with their service. The original contact had stated in her e-mail to me of 28 October 2004 that there was a 100% job guarantee on completion of the course yet some people stated that when they could not be found jobs they were given inappropriate short term contracts unrelated to the courses they had completed or, in some cases, positions training at the Academy, at which point Britannia had then told them that these positions constituted fulfilment of the job guarantee. Other students told of courses changed at short notice by the academy with no recourse for students whilst Britannia levied severe penalties for students attempting to change course dates and unreasonable penalties for arriving late, this completely contradicted the assertions of flexibility and fairness made by the "advisor".
During the course of my investigations I also found that the Advertising Standards Agency had made an adverse adjudication regarding the “guaranteed job” portion of Britannia’s advertisements in 2002.
The following week I received a phone call from Britannia's administration team stating that a place had become available on the A+ Complete course starting the week commencing 29/01/05. I felt that this was extremely short notice, it served to further raise my disquiet regarding the Academy and, given that I had been given this particular textbook, smacked of a company wishing to tie me into a contract I could not back out of. I declined the place and immediately decided to cancel my application. I wrote to Britannia and Barclays on 24 November 2004 notifying them both of my decision.
I received a response from the Academy on 26 November 2004 advising me that I had carried out the Induction module and had, therefore nullified my statutory cooling off period.
On 27/11/05 I noted that a sum of £820.00 had been paid into my bank account by Barclays on 18/11/05, this amount related to examination fees which I had been told would be exclusive of the course costs, at no point did Britannia indicate that they would form a part of the loan, I refunded these monies to Barclays at my earliest opportunity.
The letter further stated that no refund of the course monies would be given despite the obvious fact that I had yet to commence any form of IT learning with the academy. Various letters went back and forth between the Academy and I have recieved no joy.
Points of Dispute
i) I was not told on 17 November 2004 that I was at a point of no return. In fact the "advisor" tried to get me into an induction class but it was full. I did not therefore undergo the induction part of the course. In any event it is not stated in Britannia's terms and conditions that an induction is part of a course and as such a point of no return.
ii) In correspondence with Barclays Career Development Loans it came to my attention that I did not fill in the course start date on my application to Barclays. My copy of this form, provided by Britannia, contains a blank course start date field. This was filled in after I had signed the papers on 17 November 2004 and sent direct to Barclays by the Academy. The money was then transferred to them on 18 November 2004. This is therefore a false document. Barclays have provided me with a form upon which a course start date of 17/11/04 has been entered.
iii) On the Client Information Sheet I received on 4 November 2004 it says that it takes anywhere between 6 to 8 weeks to process applications. my application took 2 weeks. I feel that I was rushed through this.
iv) After my meeting with the "advisor" on 17 November 2004 I received 4 letters from the Academy all from different people. None of these letters stated that I had completed the Induction Module.
v) On Britannia's Complete Learning Programme it does not include the Induction as part of the course.
vi) In the Training Application Form terms and conditions at 5.5 it states that monies should be paid 14 days before the course, or the first course in the package of courses. This is a contradiction. I attended Britannia's offices on 17 November and the money was received by them from Barclays very swiftly on 18 November. If I underwent an induction course on 17 November 2004 as stated by the "advisor" then why was this allowed to happen?
i) I was given the impression that this was a government based scheme and that the financial risks were minimal given the astronomical earning power I would obtain on finishing the course.
I believe that I was rushed through a process that should have taken 6 / 8 week in just 2 weeks. I believe that it is my word against the "advisor" with regards to my undertaking the induction module. What I would say is that there is no evidence to back up this fact. There is nothing in writing received by me to state this.
I repaid to Barclays the sum of £7,180. I looked to Britannia to reimburse me in full or, less the £39.99 cover price of the aforementioned A+ complete textbook.
I had undergone absolutely no training with Britannia Academy. I attended Britannia's offices twice and talked about the course and filled in forms but I was still well within my rights to cancel the course as it was not going to start until 24 January 2005.
My wife contacted the Academy incognito and was told by the staff that an induction course lasted 1 hour and 30 minutes. I was present at the offices for no longer than 40 minutes.
In view of the information above I asked that Britannia reimbursed me the sum of £7,180.00 at which point the textbook would be returned or £7,141.01 without return of the textbook.
They refused, the banking onbudsman studied the case and found Barclays had no case to answer and the Learning and Skills Council told me there was nothing they could do about it.
In 2006 I gave up the chase but still burned...
I was royally screwed by these people, had to remortgage my home to repay the loan and learned a valuable caviat emptor lesson.
All I can say in my defence was that I was unemployed and at a low place when these people caught me out.
In a funny way the experience also helped me build a totally new and unexpected career too, not a bad silver lining!
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Britannia IT are/were a bunch of theives and no doubt the unscrupulous owners are still out there
CF ii) In correspondence with Barclays Career Development Loans it came to my attention that I did not fill in the course start date on my application to Barclays. My copy of this form, provided by Britannia, contains a blank course start date field. This was filled in after I had signed the papers on 17 November 2004 and sent direct to Barclays by the Academy. The money was then transferred to them on 18 November 2004. This is therefore a false document. Barclays have provided me with a form upon which a course start date of 17/11/04 has been entered.
Hi ChingfordFlanuer,
I did a CCA request and SAR to both Barclays and Britannia IT administrators. I got back all copies of applications forms. The consultant had filled in most of my Barclays application form and posted it.
I've also being doing some research. What made me so angry about the owners of Britannia IT was that they set up the same organisation in Australia www.britanniasolutions.com.au, with the same intentions. And also I saw loads of advertisements which i saved of Britannia IT offering business loans back in 2006.
Thanks LA, my MP is now taking a fresh look at it.
Will keep you all posted, so to speak!
I don't hold out much hope this late in the game but if they are re-investigating and Barclays are under the spotlight again for training methods then there may be a chink in the CDL armour yet.
Hi! Everyone and Happy New Year !!
I need ideas on how to go on about CDL issue I'm Having. I have taken a CDL from Barclays to study at Brittania IT and eneded up paying the CDL befoe i even got the chance to complete my studies. As you all know they are way gone. But just before they have gone into administaration they have contacted me and asked me and told me that, I have to pay "£2000.00 extra directly to Brittania IT for extra courses I have taken, which I protested against, but when they send a court letter I gave in as my crdit rating is important. But the account they gave me to pay the standing order to is a under Brittania IT solutions, not Brittania IT ltd. I have no agreement with that company and when i heard Brittania IT ltd has gone into administration i tried to contact the administrators only to be told that i have been paying into Brittania IT solutions account. I have paid in quite a lot of money and would like to get my money back if possible. Is this not a fraud or deception?. Anyone out there who can show to the right direction, please. Many Thanks
Unless settlement in full of £1,795 is received within seven days.
RE: BRITANNIA IT TRAINING COURSE FEE
THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER INTIMATION.
Legal proceedings shall include a claim for court expenses of £120.00 plus statutory interest resulting from priior failure to pay.
Upon judgement, Court bailiffs may be instructed to levy execution against your personal assets to the value of the debt/
Communication regarding this account must be made in writing quoting the reference of this notice to the creditor, as named below.
ONLY IMMEDIATE SETTLEMENT WILL PREVENT ISSUE.
Payment should be made direct to the creditor listed below by cheque, standing order credit card or BACS
If no payment is received within seven days the right is also reserved to seek a County Court Summons without further notice.
If Judgement is made against your your name and address will entered in the Register of County Court Judgement, making it difficult for you to obtain any credit in the future
08 june 2006
Simply a scare tactic written by a staff member at Britannia IT and not Northampton Court - I noticed a grammatical error and started having doubts about the letter scanned and e-mailed northampton court - confirmed a false misleading document
This was a desperate attempt by Britannia IT staff to get more money from students. I was fooled, scared into paying more - ( just had a panic about going to court, and having bailiffs coming to my family home)
I look at this letter now and think how could I have fallen for this. Its just the same as what DCA do send letters saying that they be taking you to court if you don't pay up,within seven days.
Selling false and misleading services to unemployed people! making you more unemployed then before!!!!
I was suckered into one of these loans aswell, i really dont know what to do! they promised me training but they kept me waiting for a few months for lessons it was soo hard to understand the books and the sales man told me it would be 90% practical they mislead people! I have NOT learned ANYTHING! i am soo angry with myself for letting myself be fooled by people like this! I wont be able to pay this loan off as i am still off work and I cant even sleep anymore thinking about it hence the time im posting this! all its done is depressed me and brought pain to my life! I wish there was someone who could help or had any knowledge on how 2 recover that money because i have no idea on wat to do. I also was thinking to create a website to name and shame these fraudsters these [problem]mers! so for other people not to suckered into them! People like those monsters should not be allowed to live! i hope they burn in the hotest fires of hell!!
Maybe that's the best thing you can do - look for other people who feel they've been misled and treated badly, and get together with them to put pressure on those doing wrong.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
This year I started my training as a driving instructor and I was referred like you to Barclays. Everything was organised by trainer and all money was transfered directly to them for the full course fees of £5000.
Like you, the company is gone into liquidation and lots of students have lost their money. we have made a facebook page and wrote to Trading Standards, Barclays and so forth.
I would like to know about your outcome as we are all so worried that they are going to make us pay for something we never had.
Please let me know.
:-|
Sorry to say that we ran out of ideas and eventually put the loan onto interest free card and paid the full £9000.00. I regret this as I now think that it would have been better to have defaulted on the loan and then negotiated a settlement figure.
I recently did one with MBNA (virgin card) where my £9600.00 debt was settled for £2000.00
I just didn't know that banks etc would do this at the time.
Career Development Loans Wit Barclays
say it not the case. I am a little confused whether Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
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Originally Posted by la2006
Re: Career Development Loans Wit Barclays
