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Firstly, before continuing, i have not received any kind of written contract whatsoever although i have been employed by my company for the last 18 months.
In mid - January i was arrested at my place of work, however, i was released without charge but bailed to go back to the police station whilst further investigations are undertaken. I was suspended on full pay.
In mid - February i was requested to attend a disciplinary hearing where i declined to comment on an allegation that was made toward me as the police had inferred that i was not to discuss this matter with anyone whilst their investigations continued.
At the meeting and on two previous occasions i informed the company that i denied the allegation made toward me.
Previously I had written to the company and requested that they wait until the police investigations had been concluded as i am positive this would confirm my innocence.
Last Friday i received a letter from my employer stating that, and i quote, "i feel the incident did occur and this amounts to gross to mis-conduct and therefore you are immediately dismissed".
I feel rather miffed that my employer has taken such action, without having any evidence to hand, only a written statement from the person who has made the allegation.
I have written to him once again stating that i wish to appeal against the decision. I assume this will involve another disciplinary hearing, however, i would suggest that i am only able to deny the allegation further as, i have previously mentioned, the police have said that this matter should not be discussed.
I would like an opinion as to whether the stance i am making is being helpful or unhelpful to my cause, or, what should my next step be?
Finally, as my employer appears to have been rash in nailing his colours to the mast and stated that i am guilty of the allegation, if it should be that the accusation is unfounded, would i be correct in thinking that i would be in a position where i could sue my employer?
Sorry that you have found yourself in this situation.
Was the arrest for a work-related matter? Has this been investigated and the subject of disciplinary procedures outside of the Police investigation? Have you sought he advice of the investigation officer having learned of your dismissal?
Unfortunately employers do not need to apply the same burden of proof in dealing with work related matters, although they do have to have 'strong evidence'. It may be that if the Police completely exonerate you of wrongdoing this could have a bearing but (if you are able to in vague terms) provide a little more detail, we may be able to offer more advice.
Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.
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The allegation was not brought to my attention by my employer, the police were involved before i knew anything about the incident.
The allegation is more serious and involves a female colleague, i would prefer not to elaborate any further on the accusation as i find it all rather distressing.
As sidewinder said, employers do not need the same burden of proof as the police.
You need to check your contract/employees handbook, many companies will have something in there, that involvement in a criminal case/police could bring the company in disrepute and therefore is gross to mis-conduct.
If it does not, then in the appeal hearing ask that they await the outcome of the police investigation, my advice is to give as many details as you can, are honest with them but point out that all this is confidential.
Its no good, telling them to mind their own in this, you really need to be open and honest if you want to keep your job.
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As i said in my original question, i have never received a contract.
I have also previously requested by letter that my company awaits the outcome of the police investigation.
As the police have said i shouldnt discuss the case with anyone else then i am reluctant to offer my side of the story to my employer , especially as i have no trust in them being confidential about the matter.
I have been open and honest as i can be by saying that i denied the allegation made against me.
I have no desire to keep my job after they have so blatantly blamed me without sufficient evidence. That is now acedemic after they have dismissed me already.
My ultimate goal is to clear my name and restore my reputation, however i want to be sure that i am going through and will go through the correct procedures.
In view of the nature of this case, and the fact that there is ongoing Police involvement, I would strongly recommend that you consult with an employment lawyer.
There may have been a breach of procedure. You are entitled to know exactly why you have been dismissed, and what condition of employment you are supposed to have breached. Ultimately the employer can dismiss for some 'substantive reason' as long as they can qualify this and carry out the statutory disciplinary procedures - this could be for example the impossibility in the circumstances of being able to work alongside other members of staff. The employer would have to be very very careful however in taking this course as you could have a case for wrongful dismissal if you are exonerated of any wrongdoing whatsoever. In that case, by definition the allegation could be malicious or false and the 'substantive reason' would not exist.
Help to that degree is outside of the scope of a forum such as this and it may well be worth your while getting a free initial consultation with a specialist. I wish you luck.
Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.
If I have been helpful in any way - please feel free to click on the STAR to the left!
Please note that PMs may well not be answered unless they relate to issues which cannot be included in a Forum post, and also because I am only available infrequently at present
As the police have said i shouldnt discuss the case with anyone else
Have they given you a good reason for this, or is it just to make their life easier?
You can discuss it with whomever you like, the Police have no gagging power. If they say don't discuss it with anyone, just how are you supposed to consult a solicitor, etc.?
I’ve spoken to my wife who is a criminal lawyer. First off, were you interviewed under caution, have you been charged, have you been bailed.
Second as pat has said, she was very surprised you have been told not to talk to anyone, the police have no power to do this and in her words it’s very irregular.
You need to see a lawyer ASAP and follow their directions.
Now onto the employment issue, I agree with sidewinder, you really need to see an employment lawyer. I understand your reluctance to speak to your employers about this but, I’m guessing they have had an account off the female member of staff and your silence in this is only hurting your case.
You really do need to be open with them, tell them everything; they really need both sides of this story.
The company on the face of this could well be acting within the law and could only be showing a duty of care towards the other member of staff.
There has been cases like this many times, one involving a rape and the guy was found not guilty, yet he lost his job and the EAT upheld the dismissal as lawful.
I can only advice that you be totally honest with your employer, even offer to be suspended without pay until the investigation is over, on the proviso that if exonerated, you receive all pay due.
Good luck and I hope things turn out for the better soon
If my comments have been helpful please click my scales
I’ve spoken to my wife who is a criminal lawyer. First off, were you interviewed under caution, have you been charged, have you been bailed.
Second as pat has said, she was very surprised you have been told not to talk to anyone, the police have no power to do this and in her words it’s very irregular.
You need to see a lawyer ASAP and follow their directions.
Now onto the employment issue, I agree with sidewinder, you really need to see an employment lawyer. I understand your reluctance to speak to your employers about this but, I’m guessing they have had an account off the female member of staff and your silence in this is only hurting your case.
You really do need to be open with them, tell them everything; they really need both sides of this story.
The company on the face of this could well be acting within the law and could only be showing a duty of care towards the other member of staff.
There has been cases like this many times, one involving a rape and the guy was found not guilty, yet he lost his job and the EAT upheld the dismissal as lawful.
I can only advice that you be totally honest with your employer, even offer to be suspended without pay until the investigation is over, on the proviso that if exonerated, you receive all pay due.
Good luck and I hope things turn out for the better soon
Hi
I agree with you cal37 I too wonder if the OP is talking about a bail condition here, and could he breach it by telling his story, as you suggest we need more info to give any valid advice.
Hi
I agree with you cal37 I too wonder if the OP is talking about a bail condition here, and could he breach it by telling his story, as you suggest we need more info to give any valid advice.
andy
I would suggest that any bail condition as draconian as that could only come from a Court, after being charged. The Police lack authority to modify conditions of Police Bail. There are, however, one or two statute offences where there is a specific offence of informing others; these tend to be anti-terror, RIPA and some FSA cases.
To gag someone like this breaches several Human Rights
I would suggest that any bail condition as draconian as that could only come from a Court, after being charged. The Police lack authority to modify conditions of Police Bail. There are, however, one or two statute offences where there is a specific offence of informing others; these tend to be anti-terror, RIPA and some FSA cases.
To gag someone like this breaches several Human Rights
We are having to guess here arn't we, and this is the problem, the OP
distressed about allegation has he not understood a condition of bail, I agree its so difficult to advise or should we if criminal proceedings may still follow.
I tend to agree with comments about seeking professional advise from a firm of solicitors.
I had an unenviable task of suspending a colleague after an accusation was made against him, he had been charged with an offence, a bail condition was not to contact the complainant, he was informally advised when released on police bail not to contact any work colleague.
later once the CPS discontinued the action we reinstated him, it was only later we discovered the complainant a colleague had herself mental health issues, often making bizarre accusations it was all quite sad,
I havn't worked with him for sometime, but I am sure that for him not being allowed to tell what happened was frustrating.
As previously mentioned, i have not been charged. My bail conditions state that i should not visit my place of work nor contact the complainant.
I am to return to the police station on a determined date where i assume that this will be to hear a summary of the police investigation to date.
I told my company that the police had inferred that i do not discuss the case with anyone else as i didnt want to say anything that could be used against me at a later date, i.e. should the matter ever get to court.
I have no desire to continue working for this company but i have more than every desire to clear my name. At the appeal hearing, i am now considering whether i should give my statement as to what i believe happened on this fateful day and see what kind of reaction i would get from my employer even though he has taken action by dismissing me from the company already.
I would suggest that any bail condition as draconian as that could only come from a Court, after being charged. The Police lack authority to modify conditions of Police Bail. There are, however, one or two statute offences where there is a specific offence of informing others; these tend to be anti-terror, RIPA and some FSA cases.
To gag someone like this breaches several Human Rights
It would seem police can in fact attach conditions to bail
If i didnt have a contract or written statement of employment, which i didnt , would i be able to take my case to an employment tribunal on the grounds that i would not have and havent been made aware of the disciplinary process by my employer?
From what i gather, the employer can dismiss me if he feels that the evidence in his posession outweighs my own. It seems all rather unjust that an employer can unload you so easily without having the need for criminal evidence to back up the reason for dismissal.
If i didnt have a contract or written statement of employment, which i didnt , would i be able to take my case to an employment tribunal on the grounds that i would not have and havent been made aware of the disciplinary process by my employer?
From what i gather, the employer can dismiss me if he feels that the evidence in his posession outweighs my own. It seems all rather unjust that an employer can unload you so easily without having the need for criminal evidence to back up the reason for dismissal.
In short very unlikely. Chances are an EAT would find you would of been dismissed even if you had of been aware of them and therefore makes no difference.
If my comments have been helpful please click my scales
In short very unlikely. Chances are an EAT would find you would of been dismissed even if you had of been aware of them and therefore makes no difference.
Would it make a difference if i went to the employment tribunal not having a contract or a written statement and also having notification from the police that the allegation was false and unfounded?
Dismissed for Gross Misconduct
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Originally Posted by Rather Miffed
