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I will try to be brief. I do not ordinarily live in UK but have a small house there. I have a car which occasionally my children use. At the beginning of February they collected my post to find a congestion charge certificate relating to an unpaid congestion charge dated 5th December. We had never received the original penalty notice. They immediately wrote to the CC office advising them of who the driver was and asked that the timing of the fine be set back as we didn't receive original penalty charge notice, so didn't have chance to make representation or pay original amount. My daughter is not disputing the charge merely the fact that we had not received the original notice and that as I was not in the country we had not met the various deadlines to keep the charge to a minimum. My presence in the UK can be verified by HM Immigration so I can prove when I was not here. Also, what defence is there as the original notice was never delivered. As the owner of the car and not in the country during this period what obligations do I have in relation to unpaid congestion charge fine?
The vehicle must be registered at the address here? They will probably argue that you have a duty to arrange to receive mail sent to the registered address. I would contact TfL first, but my experience is that they don't bother replying. You need to make a formal 'representation' to TfL stating all that you have said. Keep copies, and send by recorded delivery.
If it is registered as a debt (because they don't take any notice) and you get an 'order for recovery' you will need to fill out a PE3 [Statutory Declaration, (also a PE2 if it is 'late')] which should be sent with the order, if not - they are available from TECCustomerservice.tec@hm courts-service.gsi.gov.uk or ring them on 0845 704 5007, they are quite helpful.
Thanks - the car is registered in the UK. One of my daughters does collect post from my house quite regularly - every three or four weeks if I am not there. This is when we received the charge notice certificate dated 21st Jan. As it was my daughter who had incurred the charge she wrote to them saying that and as we had not received the original notice asked that the offence timelines commence at the date we notified them of the driver. Their response was that we had not notified them in time and we were already in default. (Hardly surprising as we had not received the original notice). Surely there must be some onus on them to prove we received the original notice? We are not disputing the charge, we are supplying the driver info and want to pay - but at the correct price for the documents we have received - without any penalties.
Surely there must be some onus on them to prove we received the original notice?
Yes you would have thought so. They regard 'issuing' as 'receiving', you can join me in arguing against that if you like.
If your daughter has already made a representation and it has been rejected you can take it to PATAS on appeal. The forms for this (yellow and white) should have been with the rejection letter.
The response we had said 'the pcn was issued on 7th dec..it required payment or representation within 28 days...your correspondence concerning this PCN was not received until after the 28 days had elapsed...whilst we have considered if mitigating circumstances would allow us to consider the representation as if it were in time, we must inform you that on this occasion we cannot consider your representation. you must pay the outstanding amount of £150'. - In my opinion totally unfair.If Royal Mail were 100% on deliveries then I would find it difficult to argue their point but knowing their relative non-performance we are actually being penalised for Royal Mails lack or performance.
For the future, why not have your daughter take over as Registered Keeper on the V5 - then issues where you do not collect mail for some time will not cause future problems.
Whether she owns the cat or not is irrelevant to keepership.
Thanks for the registration info but I have three daughters who use the car occasionally - cars in for service etc - as a spare car. When in UK i use it. All would have been fine if the original notice had arrived. In fairness Royal mail are to blame for the whole scenario - would be interesting if I could rope them in some way in this case! I guess that would be too complicated.
Royal Mail 'lost' 15 MILLION items in 2006. (their figures, reality may differ)
The more people point that out the better.
If you want secured delivery or tracked mail these days you have to pay extra for it, ask any business that relies on it. I have already complained to my MP that this is in essence a huge price rise on the cost of postage. In the light of the service that Royal Mail currently offers as 'standard', which is no longer adequate for such documents, the rules on 'service' (posting assumes receipt) need to be changed. Urgently.
In the meantime, it's not like TfL can't afford an enhanced service is it? Or are they paying their contractors too much?
Originally Posted by bigbadger
In fairness Royal mail are to blame for the whole scenario
In true fairness, not completely. TfL know the score the same as the rest of us. Just because their computer may have been told to post something, it doesn't mean it was received at the destination.
The bailiff process won't kick in until you receive an 'Order for Recovery' which lets you know that the 'debt' has been registered at Northampton county court (an office building that houses computers that send out automated warrants that will make your life never the same again, and some quite nice people).
Disputing a Congestion Charge Fine
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Re: Disputing a Congestion Charge Fine
Originally Posted by bigbadger
