Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder notvhappy Novitiate



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    Default Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Good evening all,

    Not 1 but 2 parking chargeicon Notices arrived at work today from a company called Park Direct Ltd. for the car which I generally drive. They have been passed to me as most people know this although the registered owner/keeper is the business.

    It is annoying that both of these notices are from the beginning of December but were only issued within the last few days as I cannot be sure I have not been there again since... Oh well, wait and see.

    Anyway, my real issue is that the notice has been issued for the following alleged contravention: "Stopping or waiting on private land where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force." My issue with this is that in my mind I did neither. In both pictures the vehicle is clearly visible not fully in the parking space, with brake lights on, in one picture it appears clear that the vehicle is in fact still moving and is possibly 2-3 feet out of the space as I am slowly pulling in. This is because the poorly displayed parking sign is in front of me and before I decided to park, I was trying to read it for the rules about who can or cant park there between which hours etc. (It was dark in both instances).

    I feel I am being stitched up and wonder whether any of you have any advice on how to appeal or whether it is worth appealing.

    Thanks in advance...

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  2. #2
    Classic Account Holder
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Just read the sticky at the top of the parking forum as what you appear to have are not parking penalties but invoices from a private company. There are plenty of threads in this forum where people have received similar invoices and many detail the action they took to deal with the companies who are effectively trying it on.


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder notvhappy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Thanks Rob S. I have had a read around the site and am planning my response in writing, however, from reading the site, it has prompted a few questions...

    1. The Notice was sent to my employer as the "Owner/Keeper", my employer has passed it to me to deal with as I was driving the vehicle on these 2 occasions. Should I write as the Owner/Keeper, or as myself as the driver on these 2 occasions?

    2. It was in a Railway/Underground car park, from what I have read, that could make a difference, no?

    3. Finally, the PCN states, "you were the registered owner/keeper of motor vehicle... when the the vehicle was believed to be stopping or waiting at..." Can you really be issued a ticket for stopping? Essentially you are still moving if you are stopping?!?

    Any advice greatly appreciated... NVH


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Barnsley Boy Novitiate Barnsley Boy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Hi,

    Is it the notorious Ealing Broadway Station [problem] perchance?

    If so don't worry about railway by-laws - it is a private ticket brazen as you like, using protected terms like "Penalty Charge Notice" which they have no right to do.

    See PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice under the parking forum [may have to scroll to 2nd page]

    This is a long running thread, apparently hundreds of people have been caught out. Don't even dream about paying - crowd of shysters.


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder notvhappy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Thanks Barnsley Boy, having read the forum you recommended, I have no intention of paying them as it does seem like a big [problem]. However, I feel as if I am in a sticky situation as the possibility of further letters will go to my work place as the registered owner/keeper. I do not want them to think thay have employed an irresponsible person of some sort?!?

    Would I not be better sending a letter before the initial 14 days are up denying any responsibility?!?

    Apologies in advance if this reply seems wishy washy, but my boss who handed me the Parking notice made it clear it needed dealing with. Also, with a company as the owner/keeper, might they be more aggresive in going after the payment?

    Thanks again...


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Barnsley Boy Novitiate Barnsley Boy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    There is no eaqsy answer to this. Depends on your relationship with the employer. Maybe it would be worth writing to Park Direct fessing up to be the allocated driver but denying any debt, lord knows there are enough reasons. They might still write to your employer, ignoring your instructions to take any issues up with you.

    It won't go to court, none have so far - they would lose big time. Your best bet, I know it is difficult, is to get your employer onboard. Maybe get their approval to write back to Park Direct - along the lines of "nothing to do with us mate - take it up with our employee Mr/Mrs XXXXXX. You would then write separately telling Park Direct to do something suitably biblical.


  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder notvhappy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Thanks Barnsley boy, had a chat at work today, decided to go down the, " you obviously have obtained our details from the DVLA. We are the keeper, take it up with the driver, but we do not keep records", route...

    Wait and see I guess?


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder notvhappy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Afternoon All,

    Have had a letter back after the last 'appeal', from the parking company appeals department. They have written the following...

    '...you are the keeper of the vehicle in question therefore it is yourselves who must pay the charge. The responsibility remains with yourselves to keep records of who may have driven this vehicle on the contravention date, as stated on your penalty charge notice the liability of the vehicle lies with the owner/keeper.'

    It continues...

    '(the), appeal has been denied because the parking bays are within a controlled zone where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force once the vehicle exceeds the double yellow lines. Stopping or waiting on private land is not permitted unless you are diplaying a valid parking permit.'

    Finally...

    'There are clearly two big yellow signs fixed to the barrier above the wall stating that this area is a 24/7 controlled paking zone with a no stopping sign. There is also a sign in each bay and on the entrance and exit stating what will happen if and when a vehicle is seen to enter this zone.'

    They are demanding payment in full.

    Any suggestions on the next response on my behalf? Should it be more final? Along the lines of it is not our responsibility to keep records, your issue is with the driver and if you have no proof of who that person is then go away? Or any other ideas?

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated...


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by notvhappy View Post
    Afternoon All,

    Have had a letter back after the last 'appeal', from the parking company appeals department. They have written the following...

    '...you are the keeper of the vehicle in question therefore it is yourselves who must pay the charge. The responsibility remains with yourselves to keep records of who may have driven this vehicle on the contravention date, as stated on your penalty charge notice the liability of the vehicle lies with the owner/keeper.'
    Wrong. It's private land the contract is with the driver. Ask them to show them statute or case law that proves otherwise. Whether records of who was driving or not exist is irrelevant as this is a civil case you are under no legal obligation to disclose it (you can also use the data protection act to avoid disclosure as well). If they feel otherwise ask them to quote relevant statute or case law. Penalty charges are illegal under case law (Dunlop).

    Quote Originally Posted by notvhappy View Post
    It continues...

    '(the), appeal has been denied because the parking bays are within a controlled zone where stopping or waiting restrictions are in force once the vehicle exceeds the double yellow lines. Stopping or waiting on private land is not permitted unless you are diplaying a valid parking permit.'
    Double yellow lines aren't enforceable without a valid TRO - on private land they have no legal basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by notvhappy View Post
    Finally...

    'There are clearly two big yellow signs fixed to the barrier above the wall stating that this area is a 24/7 controlled paking zone with a no stopping sign. There is also a sign in each bay and on the entrance and exit stating what will happen if and when a vehicle is seen to enter this zone.'

    They are demanding payment in full.
    No stopping signs on private land are the same as lines described above. They can only be used as terms of a contract and shouldn't they be taking that up with the driver?

    Quote Originally Posted by notvhappy View Post
    Any suggestions on the next response on my behalf? Should it be more final? Along the lines of it is not our responsibility to keep records, your issue is with the driver and if you have no proof of who that person is then go away? Or any other ideas?

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated...
    I'd suggest one of Bernie's templateicon letters with the above points and saying unless they can provide the evidence to support their claim that you can no longer be of assistance to them.



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