Thread: Jysmystry v Optical Express

Its official, I've have had enough of these idiots so IT BEGINS hehe

History of matter posted retrospectively, I'll keep it updated so anyone who is interested can check it out.

It begins with letter 1 ...



...After i got this letter i rang them asking what i owned them money for. They REFUSED to tell me and when i got pushy they transfered me and cut me off so i left it at that.

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Next comes letter 2..



...When i got this letter i rang them again, they couldn't tell me anything because all their "system" would say is that i owed them £68. When i got pushy i was transferred from their main admin office to the local branch who couldn't tell me anything because, and i quote "all thats handled by the main office (who had just transfered me saying it was the local branch) we just do the eye tests really" however she said she would transfer me(!?!) to them which she did who told me i needed to speak to sam in the local branch (who had just transfered me to them) and they transferred me back!. I got angry at this point and the helpful sam promised to get the info for me and send it on which she did on a compliment slip which said "our records indicate you have an outstanding balance of £68"!!!!

Thus i went into ignore mode

Next came letter 3, this is where they start getting silly, it had FINAL Reminder on it now, ooooooh!

After i got this letter I figured phone calls ain't working, its letter writing time so, very nicely i sent them this.

Dear Sirs,

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

I write in reference to your recent letters dated 30th August 2007, 14th September 2007 and 26th September 2007.

I note that in these standard letters you refer to my alleged indebtedness to yourselves to the amount of £68. I also note that you request a cheque for this alleged outstanding amount or the return of “product”.

Following receipt of your letter dated 26th September 2007 I contacted your office by telephone and requested all the details, including all transactional data, upon which you rely in making your repeated claims.

To date I have yet to receive this information and so I now assume you are no longer seeking to recover this alleged outstanding balance and consider the matter closed.

If you feel the situation is anything other than that described above please provide the information originally requested in your response for my consideration. This information is necessary before discussions with your company may proceed any further

Finally I would ask you to note that irrelevant of your response to this letter this account is in dispute.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

There was no response.

Imagine my surprise when i get this today!!



...Now bear in mind i honestly don't know if i owe them the money or not, if i do i'll pay it quick as a flash, i just take great offense at them firstly blatantly ignoring my like they are and now using stupid threat tactics to try to make me pay up!! It made me very angry so as a means of stress release i'm going to send them this. (credit for this letter goes to Car41 - Like he says it way OTT but it felt so good writing it you couldn't imagine) - I can't wait to get their response. If its another threat im off to the old bill

Dear Sirs,

DEBT RECOVERY

I refer to your letter dated 30th January 2008 which I received today and which you entitle “Debt Recovery”.

You will see from your files that this account is “in dispute” with your instructing department, Patient Accounts, as per my previous (and currently unanswered) correspondence with them dated 13th November 2007.

As I have advised your office by telephone, as I have advised “Sam” of your Plymouth Office and as I have reminded your company by letter (copy attached) I am unable to pay this alleged debt until you find yourselves able to inform quite how you come to arrive at this very specific figure.

In relation to this I would immediately refer you to guidance issued by the Office of fair Trading collection guidelines in relation to the collection of outstanding accounts and specifically: -

s.2.6h – “ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment”

s.2.8i “failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

s.2.8k “not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

Referring to your last 3 letters dated 30th August 2007, 14th September 2007 and 26th September 2007 I would point out that follow all three correspondences I have contacted you by telephone and on the later occasion in writing requesting details of the basis of your repeated and unsubstantiated claim that I own you money yet on each occasion this information has not been forthcoming. I am not in the habit of simply paying out money to all who ask for it especially when they appear to consider themselves above the need to justify their repeated claims and instead rely on the assumption that making unfounded threats of legal action will in some way frighten me into meeting your unreasonable demands.

As such I put you on notice that I consider this latest letter harassment. I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined above. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police, to whom I will make a formal statement regarding your conduct given I have already warned you your behaviour causes me to feel harassed.

I also warn you that irrelevant of the above should you continue to harass me I shall immediately commence private legal action against your company on the basis of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

As regards your ridiculous threat of legal action and specifically your reference to sending a “collector” to my property to recover the debt OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you attempt to send such a collector to my home, you will also be reported for harassment and I shall seek damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court to prevent you carrying out your threat.

Trusting that I have made myself clear on this matter I assume you will not be surprised that I now proceed to disabuse you of any misconception you may currently hold as regards my contacting you to pay this alleged debt (which I do not acknowledge exists) and instead take the course of action detailed below.

Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject access request

I note you are a registered data controller under the above act (Registration No. Z8248854). That being the case please now provide me with a full disclosure of all information held by Optical Express in relation to myself. Such a disclosure must contain all transactional data relating to my business with yourselves including, but not limited to, full details of the goods and/or services provided by your company and the charges incurred by myself through such provision.

Please note I request a full disclose of all data held including that held on any of your electronic files notes, emails, conversation records, Opticians files and any other recording facility and that a simple Breakdown of the statement of account will not suffice. Presumably as you threaten legal action in your letter you will have all this information to hand as you would of course rely on it in court and be required at that time to produce it anyway.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my history with yourselves which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to our business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore I put you on notice that if I discover that you have caused me expense by attempting to charge me for services you did not provide or are unable to justify those charges made against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA Subject access request fee, statutory interest, my legal expenses and other reasonable expenses incurred in doing so.


If there is any further specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you have previously used to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

Finally please also provide me with details of any internal complaints procedures and/or policy you have in place (or confirm in your response that you have no such procedure/policy) and details of any company, organisation, institute or other body (if any) under which Optical Express subscribe or enjoy accreditation.

I look forward to receiving your response.

Yours faithfully

Mr Jysmystry (who should’ve gone to Spec Savers!!)

Thanks for your support.

the letter is sent so lets see what they come back with. Please Please let them fail to comply )

of course you can, I'll post their comedy response tomorrow for you to chuckle at. You know how i said i didn't want just a statement of account? well guess what i got hehe...

I can just imagine the conversation their end..

data protection act? Nah, that doesn't apply to us, just fob him off or something.

Well, I have had a response which came surprisingly fast. However sometimes its better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. There is now no doubt that they have no idea what-so-ever about what im asking them and their response speaks for itself.

However, they say never interupt your enemy when he is making a mistake so im not going to be quick to respond. In fact i suspect my letter clarifying the situation will arrive with them 7 days before the statutory 40 day deadline ends. It won't hurt to have the option open to make complaints to the Information commissioner or even seek an Order forcing their compliance.

The attchment the letter refers to is a grossly inaccurate statment of account exactly as that described by Dustymunchkin and is exactly what i said i didn't want :o :-?

p.s. will sort thumbnail out tonight..

Very apt: Jonathan Swift. 'In my life, I have prayed but one prayer: oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it'

But my favourite:R.A.DICKSON 'Love your enemies just in case your friends turn out to be a bunch of bastards*'

*I hope I don't have to asterisk a quote from a 19th century author!

Dusty

sounds like i should wait till i make my final decision on going to these ppl for contacts

Chrissi

Ok, here is the letter and big enough to read

p.s. love the quotes hehe

well at least u get your money back.
Do spent it all at once.

righty ho, they have 10 days left so its time to respond to my new friend.

Here is the letter, I'll leave it on here over the weekend in case anyone has any comments and i'll be posting it monday

Dear Ms. Madden,

DEBT RECOVERY

Thank you for your letter and enclosures dated 11th February 2008.

Firstly my apologies for the delay in my response, I have been away. Whilst I am grateful for your apology, acknowledge the date of the enclosure (which suggests I was not completely ignored!) and appreciate the information it contains you have totally failed to take on-board the issues raised in my letter.

As such I summarise below the salient points you seemed to have missed: -

• The payment of £10 was not in any way a payment on the account but was the prescribed maximum fee to accompany a properly formatted Subject access request under the Data Protection Act. Irrelevant of the fact you returned the payment, my request was deemed served on 4th February 2008 and the 40 day period within which you are obliged to respond began at that time. You are therefore obliged to provide the information within that timescale if your company has any desire to comply with the law.

• Whilst I appreciate the details contained within your letter this appears to be the one thing I suggested would continue to frustrate matters, i.e. a statement of account, specifically as I know it is incorrect. All the information you have provided allows me to do is cross-reference your figures with my banking statements. That will not answer my original question. Presumably the legal action you suggest you will take will rely on the information you have now provided and my reaction to any service of court papers will be to place you on strict proof of those details. If you cannot do that now how can you expect to produce the information to a court? It will save all parties a great deal of time if you simply give me the information I have asked for now and indeed, pursuant to my S.A.R - (Subject access request) you have no option but to provide that information as I will simply force you to comply if you fail to do so voluntarily.

• You have failed to provide me with details of your complaints policy nor confirmed no such policy exists.

• You have failed to advise me as to whether Optical Express enjoys the accreditation of any third party organisation or governing body.

I am wholly unable to consider making any payment to you on the basis of an erroneous list of dates and I’m not really wishing to enter into protracted correspondence on this matter, especially when your last letter made it quite clear you do not read my letters properly. I would therefore suggest it would save us both a great deal of time if we await your disclosure before we continue with this matter as this may of course result in you receiving payment. That said I would be grateful to receive ahead of that time details of the points I raise in 3. & 4. above as I wish to make a formal complaint on the handling of this matter.

I look forward to receiving your response.

Yours faithfully

Mr Jysmystry