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Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Will these pro PPC toadies ever let up? Clearly they are worried that they are losing the battle. This is why they must continually post irrelevant material like this that we have seen before and which tells us precisely nothing. The defendants here did not mount any kind of proper defence. their argument seems to consist of I didn't see the signs without even mentioning the Vine case which would have assisted them and without raising any of the other available defences - no contract was formed as no acceptance by conduct occurred, I was not the driver, the amount claimed is a penalty and not damages for breach of contract, the contract terms are unreasonable under UCTA, etc, etc. More and more people are coming to sites such as Pepipoo and fighting back. The PPC [problem]mers post this sad and pathetic material precisely to deflect attention from the very unenforcability of the "invoices".
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
I am not a Pro PPC or an anti PPC. At the moment, the pro PPC have posted transcripts of judgements, so just 1 judgement will have the effect of discrediting Interesting for one. Is there a thread to a judgement against a PPC to view.
Is there a judgement that can be posted that has been transcribed where the PPC loses in court when they have turned up? If yes just post the link on this thread and BINGO we have judgements to compare.
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
When a PPC faces a proper defence it does not show up. It is as simple as that. That includes Perky, the apparent Perry Mason of private parking. [EDIT]
You should direct your question to the PPCs as to why they go shopping when faced with a fair fight.
Incidentally I am aware of a person who received a ticket from Perky and who has not been taken to court. Why? Because Perky is aware that I am on the case (and the recipient is also a qualified lawyer). [EDIT]
Winning a case against a 80 year old granny, which is probably the category he selects, is very different from winning a properly defended case.
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by interesting
And before any other comments get made .. the question to legaladviser was SIMPLE.
This thread was started with 3 cases of a PPC that won ..
It does NOT need long debate or arguing ... just a response from those who are convinced EVERY PPC CASE IS UNENFORCEABLE to show evidence in a court like the OP has shown a case where the PPC has won.
I am sure that a case properly defended by legaladviser & co would win ... [edited]
[edited]just SHOW ONE CASE won in court by a driver issued with a PPC ticket !!!! please please please .. then we can have an adult debate. [edited]
Interesting, if you want an adult debate could I please ask that you desist from the type of spin that I have highlighted above. It is not, as far as I can tell the mantra of this forum.
It would be comparatively easy for me to take a trip to Gatwick and get one of the famous McDonald's/BP tickets, go through all the letter issues, pay under protest and issue a claim through moneyclaimonline. The problem is and you know it as well as I do that the money would be refunded before getting to court.
The reality of this is that it is a numbers game and the PPCs will target those they feel are ignorant and vulnerable to take to court. The "lower hanging fruit" to use the jargon. PPCs are commercial organisations and what this forum does is to help people get their case put onto the "too much trouble" pile.
I happen to think this forum does a good job at that!
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Is there a way of gaining a percentage of case that go to court where the PPC turns up and does not turn up?
Is there a way of gaining statistics of cases where parking tickets are overturned/money refunded?
Is there cases where a PPC has been taken to court/licence removed for being overzealous in the issuing of parking tickets/flouting the Law?
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Vortex,
It is not easy to get this information. The PPCs have it for sure but they are never going to realease figures which don't help their cause. There will always be spin.
Regarding the court cases, the PPC get to see the defence prior to deciding whether to turn up or not. The PPCs actually do know the law as it is, as opposed to what they try to say it is. When they see a good defence they have it away on their toes.
As for license removal, action by the authorities etc - that's a bad joke.
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Clearly "interesting" cannot maintain any perspective on this as he has an admitted financial interest in the activities of a PPC. He has also told us that he enjoys seeing people in distress after being clamped after 30 seconds on his land. Naturally, knowing these facts, many will want to take anything he says with a very large dose of salt.
Interesting, despite your typical sarcasm (which is funny for someone who apparently eschews personal attacks), I make a very fine living in the real legal world. I do this as a personal interest. I may come on here more as it irks you so much. Anyway you can hardly talk as you are on here all hours of the day trying to post the same old tired spin.
I know of at least 5 cases where the PPC has not turned up when faced with a proper defence. Only a couple of PPCs take cases anyway and they are selective (despite Perky's bravado he shies away from a case when he realises he has a decent opponent). It is very easy to keep harping on about how there is no case where a PPC has turned up and lost when we all know that they reason they do not turn up is that they know they will lose. For some reason interesting does not get this and keeps on about evidence of a case that his PPC chums are not brave enough to fight.
The Manchester airport case details are all over the web. It would be an incredible conspiracy theorist who belives that this would have been made up many years ago when we were not even having this debate. But the case is from 2001 and I have not managed to find details as yet. That does not mean the case is not real or that it does not exist. I suspect its loss is why Excel, now the biggest company, has never to my knowledge fought a similar case since.
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by interesting
just SHOW ONE CASE won in court by a driver issued with a PPC ticket !!!! please please please .. then we can have an adult debate. (heres hoping, but as one does NOT exist ... I live in hope)
the same could be argued for the banks
Just because you dont show up in court when faced with a proper defence doesnt mean the case hasn't been won.
I've had 2 in the past 2 years, 1 with the bank and 1 for a parking ticket. Neither showed up in court and I won both cases with the help of the GOOD people on this site.
Originally Posted by interesting
People are looking for some (1 even, as a start) to case where a PPC & DEFENDANT has shown up in court for a FULL hearing and the DEFENDANT WON.
Either put up or shut up ... SIMPLE.
If you had the balls to show up there would be plenty to show.
The Banks have finally had the balls to ask for a test case - now its your turn - I DARE YOU
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Out of curiosity, how do you define a good defence. Does it necessarily mean having a solicitor/lawyer representing you or simply advising you, or could it just mean being clued up, ready, having lots of evidence for when you go to court?
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by DB_SamX
Out of curiosity, how do you define a good defence. Does it necessarily mean having a solicitor/lawyer representing you or simply advising you, or could it just mean being clued up, ready, having lots of evidence for when you go to court?
You don't necessarily need a lawyer but you should take advice as to which are the key points to raise on the defence and how to prepare for and present your case. This support is readily available from myself and others. There are 5 or so key points to include in a typical defence to a private parking claim. The quoted cases raised one point and even that was not properly raised as it did not mention the key case, which would have assisted the defendant.
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
I have just posted a new thread re parking, and I read the above "judgements" first. All seem to be the driver saying he/she hadn't seen the sign. I wasn't driving the car involved in my current tete a tete with a PPC, but as a result of my " Invoice" I went to the car park concerned to check for any sign. The most obvious thing on the relatively small sign is a large blue P, considered by most reasoanble motorists as a sign of parking for nowt or for a fee that is well signed OR a barrier is present which makes you aware ther is some resrtriction. The sign at the entrance is totally unreadable from a car entering except the P and it would be dangerous to stop and read ,as it is on a slip road entry to the car park. These company's are a bunch of chancer's dependant on peoples gullability in:-
1) Parking and thinking that's ok (being oblivious to restrictions)
2) Paying 'cos there frightened into it by the bullyboy tactics used in the "demands"
I have asked a large number of people locally about the car park but no one so far realised there was any limit. I would think about a petition/survey of shoppers to include names addresses at the relevant venue if I wanted to add proof to a court that these signs (where posted) are actually designed and positioned so that no notice is taken (subconsciously and with no malice) by the average user of the car park. As for the commuters argument... instal barriers make people aware of a restriction... then who could argue.. instead of sneaky signs and a loada cash rolling in... but then that wouldn't make any money for them would it??
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Legaladviser. maybe the question should be changed somewhat, to how many fines have been either a) overturned on appeal to the number issuesd. (a Freedom of Information to say one council, for example, could be good for data), b) a rolling total on here or the other site peppipo(sorry if spelt wrong) of cases won when challenged. Surely some figure is available for tickets issued and then overturned on appeal. And surely figures would be available for those cases going through the court process rather than the appeals process. Is that reasonable to assume or not?
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by vortex
Legaladviser. maybe the question should be changed somewhat, to how many fines have been either a) overturned on appeal to the number issuesd. (a Freedom of Information to say one council, for example, could be good for data), b) a rolling total on here or the other site peppipo(sorry if spelt wrong) of cases won when challenged. Surely some figure is available for tickets issued and then overturned on appeal. And surely figures would be available for those cases going through the court process rather than the appeals process. Is that reasonable to assume or not?
What has the council got to do with a private parking ticket?
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by DB_SamX
Out of curiosity, how do you define a good defence. Does it necessarily mean having a solicitor/lawyer representing you or simply advising you, or could it just mean being clued up, ready, having lots of evidence for when you go to court?
Originally Posted by legaladviser
You don't necessarily need a lawyer but you should take advice as to which are the key points to raise on the defence and how to prepare for and present your case. . . .
Originally Posted by interesting
You can do one of a number of things ... one is ask a person who preaches for free on the internet "legaladviser" who has not publically declared his legal qualifications (so they can be verified) .. just hides behind his title and no one knows who he is / what he actually does. . .
What I would certainly not be doing is taking advice on my defence from someone who has a vested interest in my having a bad defence.
Let me turn the question around and answer "what makes a bad defence?"
The old mantra "He who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a lawyer".
In this world of parking tickets it is not realistic other than to do the work yourself. But you should bear this mantra in mind too many forget it or never knew it and hence they:
remain emotionally attached
focus on the "unfairness"
lose sight of the basics
argue mitigation rather than no liability
engage in a debate rather than put their point across
think it's about justice rather than evidence
fail to anticipate what they may be asked and how they may answer
Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
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Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
Originally Posted by interesting
Re: Transcripts of Perky's successful judgements have been posted on MSE
