Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Unhappy UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Hi, great site, have found some good advice. Could not find another thread so apologise if done.

    Basically I owe a 12K on a Lloydsicon Credit Card, business gone bust, can't pay and am currently trying to find work in Europe. DCAicon been sending letters to a friends house in UK, he is sending them back, they have a telephone number for a friend who has been helpingme out in France, I have phoned the DCA and told them that I am trying to negotiate with Lloyds directly and will not speak with them.Letters to Lloyds and a requested payment plan have been ignored by Lloyds.

    What's the chances of them chasing me around Europe,? anyone got any similar experience ?
    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    I should add, I'm not trying to evade paying my debts, I have made a reasonable offer to Lloydsicon until my situation changes - which obviously they have ignored and passed debt to AIC. I just don't want and can not afford to upset friends who are helping me by them getting hassled by AIC.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    You should send the letter in the library telling the DCA not to call you and that all communication has to be in writing. Here's the link
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...se-letter.html

    Do you know if the card has incurred charges? If it has you should send Lloydsicon the SARicon (and a £10 cheque) by recommandé (French recorded delivery)
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ction-act.html

    If the card has incurred charges when you send the harassment letter to the DCA you should also put the words "THIS DEBT IS IN DISPUTE" on the letter and then they'll have to send all the paperwork back to Lloyds.

    Make sure you keep copies of all correspondence.

    Did you send your offer(s) by recorded delivery? If not it may be sensible to send them again but by recorded delivery with letter G in the templatesicon on the General Debt forum - you may need to tweak it a bit to reflect them ignoring your previous attempts
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...templates.html

    Finally, no personal experience of banks/DCAs chasing around France but debt collectorsicon don't stop at the Channel and I do know of people who've been pursued for other UK debts when living abroad.

    Hope this helps.

    bb

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  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Thanks for the reply, since they don't have an address for me I was wondering if non communication was better than using my friends address again.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Is there someone in the UK who could forward mail from/to you?

    Or get a PO box in France? If your local PO doesn't have any available they should be able to tell you where there are vacancies.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by davedebt View Post

    What's the chances of them chasing me around Europe,? anyone got any similar experience ?
    Thanks
    If they obtain a CCJ in britain, then they will almost certainly be able to enforce it in another european country.

    What type of debt is this?

    i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

    I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.
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  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by tomterm8 View Post
    If they obtain a CCJ in britain, then they will almost certainly be able to enforce it in another european country.

    What type of debt is this?

    Credit Card Debt. Unsecured.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    if they obtain a ccj it wil be enforceable in uK only as diffferent country different law. there is no communication between the bank of england and the banque de france, excetion in case they suspect fraud and etc...

    however if the sum is very large they may be able to sure you abroad. if you are infrance you could find yourselves with an "interdit banquaire" they passed your detail which mean it will be very difficult for you to open a bank account, obtain credit , etc.... and beware charges are common over there too !!!

    i doubt they will take this action as it is quite expensive for them to find you abraod sending demand etc...... .

    for the adress it is quite easy to open a PO box in france.

    however what they could do get a ccj in uk to your known last adress and when you get back start reclaiming the money.


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    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by phill123 View Post
    if they obtain a ccj it wil be enforceable in uK only as diffferent country different law. there is no communication between the bank of england and the banque de france, excetion in case they suspect fraud and etc...

    however if the sum is very large they may be able to sure you abroad. if you are infrance you could find yourselves with an "interdit banquaire" they passed your detail which mean it will be very difficult for you to open a bank account, obtain credit , etc.... and beware charges are common over there too !!!

    i doubt they will take this action as it is quite expensive for them to find you abraod sending demand etc...... .

    for the adress it is quite easy to open a PO box in france.

    however what they could do get a ccj in uk to your known last adress and when you get back start reclaiming the money.
    Thanks for the reply,

    Lloydsicon did not have the decency to respond to my letters offering reduced payments, been with them 15 years !

    Not sure if it is better to open communication with AI or just ignore them. Also is it worth going down CCA Requesticon and contesting CCJ ?


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    don't ignore them as . if i were you ask them a copy of the CCA , only cost 1 pounds, and start your letter with this I DO NOT ACKNOWLDEGE ANY DEBT OT YOUR COMPANY NOR ANY COMPANY THAT YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

    if you are in the process to have a CCJ yes then contest it as it is probable that they don't have the right paperwork adn so have their claim to be struck out.


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by phill123 View Post
    don't ignore them as . if i were you ask them a copy of the CCA , only cost 1 pounds, and start your letter with this I DO NOT ACKNOWLDEGE ANY DEBT OT YOUR COMPANY NOR ANY COMPANY THAT YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

    if you are in the process to have a CCJ yes then contest it as it is probable that they don't have the right paperwork adn so have their claim to be struck out.

    Thanks again, are there any threads on this forum naming the unenforceable CCA's ? Also how effective is the request for CCA and if they don't respondin time ?


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    to know if your agreement is enforceable check this
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...le-useful.html

    however if you can scan it then do it but obviously remove all personal details. there is a lot of person far more knowledgeable than me who can help you .

    if you request it and after 12 days you can legally withhold any payment to them. after one month they are in default. it put your account into dispute and they cannot enforce it nor passed it on to any third party until they have comply with your request.

    it s quite useful i was able via the CCa route to have 2 debt squashed and i repaid some others at a greatly discounted price. when you are erquesting your CCA ask also for a deed of assignment if the debt has been sold to a DCAicon ( if it is not an absolute one then they cannot apply for a CCJ) good luck.

    sorry for my typoicon lol


  13. #13
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by phill123 View Post
    if they obtain a ccj it wil be enforceable in uK only as diffferent country different law. there is no communication between the bank of england and the banque de france, excetion in case they suspect fraud and etc...
    If they get a CCJ they can then go for a statutory demand and then bankruptcy and they can do this regardless of whether you are in France - by which I mean they can serve a statutory demand on you in France and they can serve a Bankruptcy Petition on you in France.

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  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by bottomburp View Post
    If they get a CCJ they can then go for a statutory demand and then bankruptcy and they can do this regardless of whether you are in France - by which I mean they can serve a statutory demand on you in France and they can serve a Bankruptcy Petition on you in France.

    wILL THEY NEED A PHYSICAL ADDRESS FOR THIS


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    botom up i would like to know i know someone close who was in the same situation but that never happened as they could not apply French law within an UK border . ( no pun intended, sorry lol )

    to get a bankrupcy in france, you must constitute your file to the banque de france and as they have no communication betwen BOE and la banque de france and that an order of judgement has no value in france only within UK.
    however and this is what i said previously, by ignoring this problem it could lead to CCJ, bankrupcy etc.. in Uk and when he /she will return then the problem will arise ther and then . this is what i advised to him to opn a PO box in france then ask for a CCA and start from there.

    tuhe law to chase a debt into an other country are very complicated, and i think they will only doi it if a very large sum of money is owed.

    i have some french friend with "interdit banquaire" which are opening bank account into an other country, such as belgium, germany, etc.. so they get acces to cheque book , debit card etc.... as ther is no communication between the banque de france.

    bankrupcy in france is very harsh,. usually people are really struggling to havea bankaccount, no debit crd whatsoever if they get one ....

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  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    yes dave they will need a physical adress but bankrupcy in france doesn;t happened automatically first they willneed to show if you can repay them abnd if yes how it will happened. once you made bankrupt you are in for 5 years with nocredit allowed etc....


  17. #17
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Having lived in France, and many other European countries, I know what "bancaire interdit" is and, frankly, it is totally irrelevant to this topic.

    Yes davedebt, they will need a physical address BUT if they don't have one they can go to court and ask for "substituted service". Plenty on the web about that and here's an example - http://www2.blackpooltoday.co.uk/pub...5/12992234.pdf

    If they win the statutory demand case they can then bankrupt you. It doesn't matter where you are - you are in the EEC and EEC law applies.
    Someone I know very well had a statutory demand served on him in France by an English yob debt collectoricon (probably lived reasonably near). By the way to check it was the right person they got a private investigator to send him a letter, by recommandé (so he had to sign for it) but there was nothing in the envelope...but they'd got his signatureicon...

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  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder phill123 Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    ihi bottomburrp i did not says that you comment were invalid. Having studied french lawi can tell you that english law cannot be enforcved in france as they have no JURISDICTION in France. so the bankrupcy can only be enforced in UK and that is it.
    if they wish to chase the debt in france then they will have to comply with the french procedure which is not irrelevant as you may suggest, but rather expensive and legally complicated. he may get an interdit bancaire if he is been chased infrance for this debt. althgouh i doubt it very much they will go that far.

    your friend mayhave a statutory demandbut it canonly beenforce in UK as far as know, as this taturotry demand was amde in Uk not infrance. howeve if the stat demand was made inf rance then well he has to comply with

    the example you mention with the investigator well it is class as an Unfair practiceicon and may as well be seen as fraud...



    however he mentined that he has tried to contact Lloydsicon toward his debt and he is getting ignored by them so a CCA will do very well in his case .however iof the debt ot trace him is too high then they simply write the debt oof as the status of limitation will apply. it is very rare unless the debt is really large 100k+,or the moeny was acquied by fraud theft tc...

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  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder davedebt Novitiate

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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Thanks for the replies, my understanding that 12k in banking terms is not a huge debt so chances they chase me around Europe is slim,I would hope. I will try the CCA Requesticon. Not sure how effective it will be though. I expect they will go to CCJ, as I'm not in the UK would be difficult for me to attend and therefore defend.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: UK Debts - Living Abroad

    Quote Originally Posted by phill123 View Post
    so the bankrupcy can only be enforced in UK and that is it.
    Exactly, the bankruptcy can be enforced in the UK, so can the statutory demand, so can the CCJ - it doesn't matter where davedebt happens to be at the time - they can ALL be enforced in the UK. Having been enforced in the UK they can then start proceedings to get bailiffs round etc to enforce them in France.

    I said all your comments about "bancaire interdit" were irrelevant in this situation. I did not say French laws were irrelevant - please read my post again.

    It is NOT particularly complicated to start legal proceedings in France to enforce JUDGEMENTS entered against you in the UK and many UK law firms have "relationships" with other European law firms for just this sort of thing.

    I don't know which nationality you are but you don't appear to be French. I don't mean to be impolite to you I may perhaps know a bit more than you about BRITISH insolvency law and how BRITISH creditors chase BRITISH debtors in foreign countries - being British and having lived in these countries myself.

    I realise you are trying to be helpful but what you have said so far is really so wrong I would laugh if it wasn't for the fact that someone may take your advice and get seriously damaged because of it.

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