Thread: Sara vs Paragon

Hello Again,

Thanks to this site i have successfully claimed money back from the Halifax and Lloyds TSB. Now i am going after Paragon.

We took out a loan against our house in April 2005 for £59,000.00 (for repairs and consolidation) PPI £20,650.00 was added but not explained nor where we given an option. After 1 year we re-mortgaged and cleared the loan.
On redemption of the loan we received £6,284.37 rebate to which i complained,a further £2,715.63 was sent as a 'gesture of goodwill' and stated they were not obliged by law to do so.
This means Paragon charged us £11,650 for 1 years cover.

I have written to them again in the wake of the recent publicity regarding PPI and they now say they are not responsible and i should write to the broker Central Capital. I have done this and they say there is no case to answer as my complaint seems 'somewhat broad'

I am unsure what to do next. Any help would be appreciated guys
Thank you
saranev

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Have a good look through the stickies at the top of this forum. You will also find some information about brokers fees as well which may be of interest.

Thank you Alan.
I have read an awful lot already but don't understand where i go from here. Is there a template letter i can use for guidance?

Cheers

Yes, in the stickies at the top of this forum.

Try this thread first: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...claimants.html

Hi Guys'
I have drafted a letter and would appreciate any comments. I am sure there is still quite alot to add to this but I've got writers block hahaha

Dear Sir/Madam
Re Account no:
We are writing in response to your letter dated 10th December 2007, with regards to the insurance mis-sold with our loan.
We do not feel your letter has offered satisfactory justification that our policy was sold fairly, reasonably and within our best interests so we request that you look into our complaint again.

We understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.
You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged us further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.
No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided (PPI) was fit for purpose, suitable for our needs or if indeed we really needed it at all. No inquiry was made as to whether we had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment. Our rights to cancel were never explained.

Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that we opened our account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

We are frankly shocked that you have operated our loan account in this way as we had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as our fiduciary.

What we require

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented us from asserting our rights until now. We believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

The original premium was (cash loan amount of £59,000.00) PPI of £20,650.00 the first direct debit was on 1st June2005. You refunded £6,284.37 following our early settlement of the loan, we complained and you increased your offer to £9,000, we received a further £2,715.63, reflecting an actual premium charge of £11,650.00.

We require the £11,650.00 premium charge refunded with interest from April 1st 2006 to date.
We require interest on £20,650.00 from 1st June 2005 to April 1st 2006

We will calculate the interest at 9.9% APR., which was your APR at the time, reflecting the principal of mutuality and reciprocity. We are sure you will advise us if the APR at the time was different. Alternatively we will ask the Court to allow us statutory interest at 8% under S69 of the Count Court Act.

Our targets to resolve this matter

We hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with us about this matter and we are writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. We will give you 14 days to reply to us accepting, unconditionally, our request in principle and letting us know a date by which we will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, we shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. We believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from us and we shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

Yours faithfully,

Hiya Guys

Has anyone got any ideas please, i need some help.

Thanks

saranev

Hiya Alan
Thankyou for your help so far, I seem to have come to a standstill. Would you mind having a look at my letter above and advise what else to put in it, I only have 1 more day.

Thanks again mate

sara

Originally Posted by saranev

Hi Guys'
I have drafted a letter and would appreciate any comments. I am sure there is still quite alot to add to this but I've got writers block hahaha

Dear Sir/Madam
Re Account no:
We are writing in response to your letter dated 10th December 2007, with regards to the insurance mis-sold with our loan.
We do not feel your letter has offered satisfactory justification that our policy was sold fairly, reasonably and within our best interests so we request that you look into our complaint again.

We understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.
You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged us further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.
No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided (PPI) was fit for purpose, suitable for our needs or if indeed we really needed it at all. No inquiry was made as to whether we had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment. Our rights to cancel were never explained.

Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that we opened our account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

We are frankly shocked that you have operated our loan account in this way as we had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as our fiduciary.

What we require

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented us from asserting our rights until now. We believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

The original premium was (cash loan amount of £59,000.00) PPI of £20,650.00 the first direct debit was on 1st June2005. You refunded £6,284.37 following our early settlement of the loan, we complained and you increased your offer to £9,000, we received a further £2,715.63, reflecting an actual premium charge of £11,650.00.

We require the £11,650.00 premium charge refunded with interest from April 1st 2006 to date.
We require interest on £20,650.00 from 1st June 2005 to April 1st 2006

We will calculate the interest at 9.9% APR., which was your APR at the time, reflecting the principal of mutuality and reciprocity. We are sure you will advise us if the APR at the time was different. Alternatively we will ask the Court to allow us statutory interest at 8% under S69 of the Count Court Act.

Our targets to resolve this matter

We hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with us about this matter and we are writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. We will give you 14 days to reply to us accepting, unconditionally, our request in principle and letting us know a date by which we will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, we shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. We believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from us and we shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

Yours faithfully,

Hello Saranv,

Your letter looks a bit familiar I personally feel that the letter is more than sufficient to send to them. The more legal arguements will come later with the POC (if it is required).

Good luck and keep us posted

Hiya H,
Hahaha, after reading so much that you had written i thought I'd steal quite alot from yours (hope you don't mind?) as its mush easier to understand than some stuff on here. I also got some help from Martin Lewis

Thankyou sooooo much. I will let you know how i get on and when/if we win i will be donating to this fab site again.

Cheers

saranev

Originally Posted by saranev

Hiya H,
Hahaha, after reading so much that you had written i thought I'd steal quite alot from yours (hope you don't mind?) as its mush easier to understand than some stuff on here. I also got some help from Martin Lewis

Thankyou sooooo much. I will let you know how i get on and when/if we win i will be donating to this fab site again.

Cheers

saranev

Hello Saranev,

No problem, we are here together to achieve our goal

Good luck and keep us posted

Hiya everyone,

We received two letters by return post, one from Paragon again stating its nothing to do with them and they will not reply to any future correspondence and one from Central Capital/Trust saying "As you have been more specific we will look into the matter again and be in touch in no more than three weeks, as this is regarded as a fresh complaint".

We'll see and i'll let you know what happens,I have a feeling this is not going to go smoothly as nothing ever does for us!

Bye for now

saranev

Originally Posted by saranev

Hiya everyone,

We received two letters by return post, one from Paragon again stating its nothing to do with them and they will not reply to any future correspondence and one from Central Capital/Trust saying "As you have been more specific we will look into the matter again and be in touch in no more than three weeks, as this is regarded as a fresh complaint".

We'll see and i'll let you know what happens,I have a feeling this is not going to go smoothly as nothing ever does for us!

Bye for now

saranev

Hello Saranev,

May I suggest that you write back to Paragon referring to this case law precedent.

They are responsible, because they are paid commission for a sale:grin:

Decision in Hurstanger v Wilson [2007] EWCA Civ 299

You will find the post in the Sticky, Useful documents for court bundles, I think it is post 5

See what you think

Hiya H,
Thankyou for your advice (again )I have read the case you are talking about.
Central Capital/Trust were the brokers so can i still go after Paragon?
I have cc' all correspondence to both parties hoping that one of them will sort this out for us, Am i hoping for to much?

saranev

Hiya H and anyone else reading this,

Oh my god,guess what? We've had a reply from Central Capital/Trust after 4 days, offering us £9,585.00 ex-gratia? What does this mean?
They are not offering interest at all and they are still charging us £2,065:00 for 1 years cover.

I don't know how to calculate the interest. could somebody have a look at the figures i quoted in the letter i (originally ) posted above and let me know if this is a fair offer or if they are trying to wriggle out of a much larger sum. I have until the 19th March to accept or reject and go to the Ombudsman.

Cheers

saranev

I forgot to tell you, I have been aproached by a BBC Consumer Affairs programme,via this website, to tell my story
What do you think? Should advise Central Capital/Trust of this?


saranev

Originally Posted by saranev

Hiya H and anyone else reading this,

Oh my god,guess what? We've had a reply from Central Capital/Trust after 4 days, offering us £9,585.00 ex-gratia? What does this mean?
They are not offering interest at all and they are still charging us £2,065:00 for 1 years cover.

I don't know how to calculate the interest. could somebody have a look at the figures i quoted in the letter i (originally ) posted above and let me know if this is a fair offer or if they are trying to wriggle out of a much larger sum. I have until the 19th March to accept or reject and go to the Ombudsman.

Cheers


saranev

Hello Saranev,

MMMmmm this is looking very good for their first offer.

What was the total amount payable on the loan, the loan amount, the PPI premium and the interest they applied on top.

Get back with this info

Hiya H,
does look good doesn't it????? here's is the info you requested thanks


Cash loan amount £59000.00
PPI premium - £20650.00
Total amount credit £79650.00
Monthly interest rate 0.7930%
APR 9.9%


Interest on insurance £33544.43
Toatal pay £54194.43


this is all the information that i have. Can you make any sense of it as i have no idea where to start

Thanks so very much for all your support and help so far
saranev

Originally Posted by saranev

Hiya H,
does look good doesn't it????? here's is the info you requested thanks


Cash loan amount £59000.00
PPI premium - £20650.00
Total amount credit £79650.00
Monthly interest rate 0.7930%
APR 9.9%


Interest on insurance £33544.43
Toatal pay £54194.43 Is this the total that they charged you for the ppi.???????


this is all the information that i have. Can you make any sense of it as i have no idea where to start

Thanks so very much for all your support and help so far
saranev

Hello Saranev,

What was the total that the charged you for the whole loan,
the loan amount £59000.00
ppi £20650.00
interest on ppi £33544.43

total so far £113,194.43

If you have no more information can you tell me the amount that you paid them every month and how long the term ran over

ie £?????? for xxx months.

Thanks

Hiya H

Gosh i am so confused

The total is £79650.00 (inc PPI)
There is no interest figure anywhere just the rate of monthly interest (0.7930%) and APR 9.9%
Then it says 120 months cover (no amount) this interest will be £33544.43 the total price you pay is £54194.43 (ppi)
aha they charged us 2 lots of interest on the ppi....or am i wrong?

We paid £696.79 per month from June 1st 2005 to April 1st 2006

The loan was originally over 300 months but we terminated after 11, we received £9000 refund.

Am i makin sense? I can only apologise if I'm not. Would it be easier for you to understand if i emailed you the agreement? I'm not very good at explaining myself
Thankyou for trying to sort this out for me you are a true star

saranev

Originally Posted by saranev

Hiya H

Gosh i am so confused

The total is £79650.00 (inc PPI)
There is no interest figure anywhere just the rate of monthly interest (0.7930%) and APR 9.9%
Then it says 120 months cover (no amount) this interest will be £33544.43 the total price you pay is £54194.43 (ppi)
aha they charged us 2 lots of interest on the ppi....or am i wrong?

We paid £696.79 per month from June 1st 2005 to April 1st 2006

The loan was originally over 300 months but we terminated after 11, we received £9000 refund.

Am i makin sense? I can only apologise if I'm not. Would it be easier for you to understand if i emailed you the agreement? I'm not very good at explaining myself
Thankyou for trying to sort this out for me you are a true star

saranev

Hello Saranev,

Looking at your figures, regardless of when you settled the loan.

If you multiply £697.79 by 300months, then the total that you would have actually paid at the end of the agreement. It comes to a staggering £209,337.00. Can this be correct.:o

It looks like the premium for the ppi was £20,???? plus ppi interest of £33544.43 totalling £54194.43. This is what they charged you for the priviledge of having ppi.


Now when you settled the loan how much of a rebate for the ppi did you get