Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
    • Nice to hear a positive story about a company on this form for a change. Thank you
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Tachograph offences fine


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5924 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

not sure if i'm posting in the right bit here but here goes...

 

A friend of mine has just been fined nearly £2000 for tachograph offences, he received the court notification for it today - it says that the amount must be paid in 28 days:o

Can anyone tell me if this is right as he would really struggle to pay this amount in that time especially at this time of year. Is it possible for him to arrange installments?

 

Anyone :confused:

Thanks in advance,

kez.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He must have known about this. The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (Vosa) prosecute for tachograph offences and they will have confiscated the relevant tachographs when he was stopped.

 

At the time he would of been informed that he is being reported for X offences.

 

He would have had the right to attend the court and defend himself and I’m guessing he did not and the court found in his absence.

 

Fines for tachograph offences are heavy and £2000 is about right these days in fact he should feel lucky, many drivers has been sentenced to varying terms of imprisonment for tachograph offences.

 

He can now write to the court asking for time to pay, he should do this ASAP.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rather than write to the Court, I would suggest it would be better to attend. You don't need an appointment. Just go on a day that the Court is sitting, arrive at 10 o' clock and explain to the Court usher you want to be seen by the magistrates about case no XXXX. You might get in straight away or you might have to wait all day. When in, explain that the amount will cause hardship blah blah blah and ask for time to pay. The magistrates will listen and because you made the effort to turn up will consider you take the matter seriously, and should work out a weekly sum. They understand there's no point persuing somebody for money he doesn't have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From a different perspective, can you advise what the offence was ? Was it a case that he was "forced" by his employer to drive over the limits etc. If so then he could have a claim against his employer under H&S regulations. I'm not an expert on H&S law however I would suspect that there may be an arguement here that the employer may be liable.

 

Just a thought.

:p :p If my advice as been of help, please give me a quick click on the scales to your right ;) ;) :)
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that argument would work. I can't see that a driver's responsibilities when alone in a cab could be laid at somebody elses door. The company in this case would also have had a similar fine anyway.

Unles of course we are talking about an owner/driver here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem you have with saying the employer forced you to break the law is that the Traffic Commissioners consider that the driver is a professional and must refuse at all times to break the law.

The driver is 100% reasonable for his/her conduct on the road. When a driver is reported for tachograph offences, the employer is spoken to as well; this is because under their operators licence they are reasonable for their drivers conduct too.

If it is proven that the employer “forced " a driver to break the law then the H & S are the least of their problems, They can have their operators licence cut, suspended or removed, at the very least a heavy fine.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's enlightened me also. As I said, it was just a thought which funnily enough answers a questioned raised last month at work (insurance) by a colleague on behalf of a haulier.

:p :p If my advice as been of help, please give me a quick click on the scales to your right ;) ;) :)
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that if the time restraints were so tight that speeding was involved or regulated breaks could not be taken, then the employer would have given him a vehicle without a taco.

Knowing you have a taco means that you cannot be forced to do something that is not allowed as everything is recorded, so the driver will have to take the full concequences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that if the time restraints were so tight that speeding was involved or regulated breaks could not be taken, then the employer would have given him a vehicle without a taco.

 

This would work unless he had driven an hgv that comes under the tacho regs in the same week. If that’s so then even if he had driven a vehicle without a tacho, he would still need to take the regulated breaks.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that if the time restraints were so tight that speeding was involved or regulated breaks could not be taken, then the employer would have given him a vehicle without a taco.

Knowing you have a taco means that you cannot be forced to do something that is not allowed as everything is recorded, so the driver will have to take the full concequences.

But virtually all work in vehicles over 3.5 tonnes needs a tacho (few exceptions, recovery etc).

Link to post
Share on other sites

This would work unless he had driven an hgv that comes under the tacho regs in the same week. If that’s so then even if he had driven a vehicle without a tacho, he would still need to take the regulated breaks.

 

Can you correct your post please. I believe there was a court case than confirmed that any private driving or commuting the employee did in his own car cannot count towards his driving hours. I'm not quite sure what your point was supposed to be.

 

Also he could quite legitimately drive a vintage lorry (25 years old or over)to a show at a weekend, and this also wouldn't count in his driving hours.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you drive a non tacho fitted vehicle as part of your job in the same week as a vehicle fitting with one you come under the tacho regs for that whole week.

 

Also there has been a case that where a driver uses a private car to drive to meet a vehicle to take over duty which is away from its normal base, then it has to count as duty time and be recorded.You are correct that commuting to work does not count unless as above.

 

My point was, that a poster said”

 

I would think that if the time restraints were so tight that speeding was involved or regulated breaks could not be taken, then the employer would have given him a vehicle without a taco."

 

Meaning as part of work so my post is 100% correct.You are mixing driving hours with duty hours.

 

Also if the person driving a show truck at the weekend gets paid to do this then it forms part of his working week and must be recorded.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cal,

 

The time driving in a car to take over a truck would count as duty time (in tachograph terms, as "other work") - in my opinion, driving a transit van for work one day would also count as "other work" rather than as "driving" - simply because the vehicle is out of scope (as far as the new tachograph regulations are concerned).

 

Isn't it the fortnight that matters, not the week?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Advisee,

 

If you drive an out of scope vehicle in the same week as an in scope vehicle then you must follow UK Domestic driving rules while driving the out of scope vehicle.

 

(A driver must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day. The daily driving limit applies to time spent at the wheel, actually driving. Off-road driving for the purpose of agriculture, quarrying, forestry, building work or civil engineering counts as duty rather than driving time. Daily duty limit a driver must not be on duty for more than 11 hours on any working day. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit on any working day when he does not drive. A driver who does not drive for more than 4 hours on each day of the week is exempt from the daily duty limit. )

 

This is where the law gets complex, if you drive an out of scope vehicle in the same week as an in scope vehicle then under EC driving rules,you must record the work ( driving and other work), staying within the EC regs. So which laws do you follow? Who knows really but the intelligence officer at VOSA I spoke too advised to record all work and keep within both UK domestic and EC hours to be sure.

 

Its very complex and many drivers and employers have come foul of the law but basically, if you get paid for it then record it. There are a few exceptions i.e.: retained firemen, TA soldiers etc but people involved in these will be well aware of their exceptions.

 

This site gives some advice FTA - Information on Key Issues - Member Briefing Notes Digital tachographs and GB domestic hours' rules guide

 

This one too Page 3 rules

 

And this one DVTA Compliance: FAQs: Tachographs

 

It’s all a minefield and the Haulage industry is the most heavily regulated industry in the UK. I have been involved in the industry since before I could walk, my father owned before his death a company running 71 tractor units and 140 trailers my brother still runs it today. Although I made a career change 5 years ago I’m still very much involved with the family business and in fact own 49 % of it :)

 

Over the years I have seen the rules change over and over again and in fact one traffic area might interpret a law differently than another traffic area ( i won`t even go into other EC states ).

 

We are not really dealing with the courts (or they are not what worries us) but dealing with the traffic commissioners, these can end your business at a click of their fingers.

 

Just to make a point, you can only be fined for speeding if caught by a policeman or a camera yes? well 6 months back the family business was before the traffic commissioners because tacho records of 5 drivers showed that they regularly speeded when leaving the operating centre doing 56 MPH ( there are no motorways within 20 miles ), the traffic commissioners put a temporary licence restriction on us, reducing our licence by 10 trucks for one month.

 

The drivers had their HGV ( or LGV if you’re a young one) suspended for one month. All this without a single court case.

 

You see even if a driver was banned by court say for drink driving and after 12 months gets it back, they still have to go before the traffic commissioners and they might not give back the HGV licence at all effectively ending his/hers career.

 

Let’s not even get onto the working time directive, they can conflict and ever counteract each other.:confused:

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

The drivers had their HGV ( or LGV if you’re a young one) suspended for one month. All this without a single court case.

That was a fascinating post. Your paragraph above concerns me, however.

 

Presumably it was just the HGV part of these peoples' licences that was suspended? How did they know which peoples' licence to suspend? What about people who were casual with you and had a main job elsewhere?

 

What if anyone had both bus and truck entitlement - would they have their whole licence suspended?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it was just the HGV or more correctly their vocational licence that was suspended. The traffic commissioners have the power to suspend / revoke or even refuse an application for a provisional vocational licence.

 

If they had both Truck and Bus the both would be suspended, when a person gets banned for drink driving say, then their drivers licence is suspended To hold a HGV or PSV licence you must hold a full car licence too. The HGV part is not suspended in that case but they can not drive a truck because their full car licence has been suspended by the ban.

 

When a traffic commissioner suspends a HGV licence he does not suspend (nor has the power too) a car licence, so you can still drive a car.

 

They suspended the 5 drivers who’s tacho`s had shown them speeding. Personally we do not employ casual drivers but even if we did, we would have to provide the tachos for the trucks they drove.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so it was just the errant drivers, rather than all your drivers? I misread your previous post.

 

 

Yes thats corect, sorry if the post was not clear.

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...