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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
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bought a car saturday afternoon no tax supplyed are you able to drive it around?


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when i bought my car from a dealer they said they do not tax vechicles they sell. this was on a saturday afternoon so i could only tax it on monday, i had the rest of my particulars, insurance etc was i still legal to drive? i have been unable to find out any were else.

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No.

 

You can't put a car on the public highway unless it is taxed.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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not having car tax is NOT a criminal offence it is a civil offence. afaik no post office opens past 12.30 on a saturday and it is the customers responsibility to make sure all the documentation is in order before the vehicle is used on the public highway un less it is a brand new vehicle

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Guest 10110001
not having car tax is NOT a criminal offence it is a civil offence.

 

The police say they don't get involved in civil matters.

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not having car tax is NOT a criminal offence it is a civil offence.

 

There are two distinct offences

 

No VED is a civil offence and is pursued by DVLA.

 

Failure to display VED (regardless of whether you have a disk or not) is a criminal offence and is dealt with by the Police - usually £30 non-endorsement FPN.

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NOT having your car taxed, when on a public highway, also invalidates your insurance...;)

 

Was there NO P.O. open in Brum on a Sat afternoon??...:confused:

 

 

i had to collect the car from wednesbury at bout 4pm by the time back in brum all is closed

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not having car tax is NOT a criminal offence it is a civil offence. afaik no post office opens past 12.30 on a saturday and it is the customers responsibility to make sure all the documentation is in order before the vehicle is used on the public highway un less it is a brand new vehicle

 

 

2001 car so obviously not brand new, i was'nt coverd then

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As far as I know, dealers are not allowed to release the car without all the legal documentation. I bought one several years ago and the dealer took me to the PO for a tax disc for the reason stated.

 

 

 

can any body be sure about this because i might use this in my defence in a on going issue i have with them, need to be sure though:rolleyes:

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Ive bought a number of cars from dealers and they sometimes dont have tax.

 

The reality of the situiation is you run the risk of a FPN for No VEL but thats the risk you take. It certainly doesnt invalidate your insurance.

7 actions in progress

 

amount refunded so far £6500

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can any body be sure about this because i might use this in my defence in a on going issue i have with them, need to be sure though:rolleyes:

 

I have been a second hand car dealer for nearly thirty years now and I have never heard anything like that before. As soon as you, the customer hand the money over the vehicle becomes your property and your responsibility. Liability for a RFL lies with you. In fact I always put the time of day by the date on the invoice so I get no nasty surprises in the post. What I sometimes do if the customer has off road parking at home is to run the vehicle home for them on trade plates and the rest is up to them. There are some post offices that are open Saturday afternoons for road tax, we have one locally that is open till 6pm Monday to Saturday. You should have left the car at the dealers and returned for it when you had the road tax. Many dealers will not tax a car for customers simply because more often than not the customer hasn't changed his insurance and they want the dealer to use his trade policy, but then we never can be sure that the customer will actually insure the car. Every vehicle I send to auction has no road tax (any outstanding I always apply for a refund) some have no MoT some have no logbook some might have no paperwork at all, so to say dealers cannot sell a car without all it's documentation I would suggest is ridiculous.

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No.

 

You can't put a car on the public highway unless it is taxed.

 

Unless travelling to/from a pre-arranged MOT appointment or for repair work after failing an MOT, or to comply with the instruction of a police officer (if I recall correctly).

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I have been a second hand car dealer for nearly thirty years now and I have never heard anything like that before. As soon as you, the customer hand the money over the vehicle becomes your property and your responsibility. Liability for a RFL lies with you. In fact I always put the time of day by the date on the invoice so I get no nasty surprises in the post. What I sometimes do if the customer has off road parking at home is to run the vehicle home for them on trade plates and the rest is up to them. There are some post offices that are open Saturday afternoons for road tax, we have one locally that is open till 6pm Monday to Saturday. You should have left the car at the dealers and returned for it when you had the road tax. Many dealers will not tax a car for customers simply because more often than not the customer hasn't changed his insurance and they want the dealer to use his trade policy, but then we never can be sure that the customer will actually insure the car. Every vehicle I send to auction has no road tax (any outstanding I always apply for a refund) some have no MoT some have no logbook some might have no paperwork at all, so to say dealers cannot sell a car without all it's documentation I would suggest is ridiculous.

 

Indeed, well said. One question though - dealers taxing cars (using their trade policy) is commonplace. Your bit about "can never be sure the customer will insure the car" - do you say that purely from a sense of community, or is there some kind of obligation upon you?

 

With the advent of ASKMID it is quite easy to put insurance in place and then be able to tax the vehicle (online if necessary) - though the system can take a little while to be updated.

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Hi, myself and many dealers that I know are reluctant to tax cars using the trade policy because we take road insurance very seriously. It is as you say due to a sense of community, not obligation. I have read of too many horror stories involving uninsured motorists. Personally I feel that the punishment for such offences makes it sometimes more attractive for the car owner to take a chance and have no insurance.

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Hi, myself and many dealers that I know are reluctant to tax cars using the trade policy because we take road insurance very seriously. It is as you say due to a sense of community, not obligation. I have read of too many horror stories involving uninsured motorists. Personally I feel that the punishment for such offences makes it sometimes more attractive for the car owner to take a chance and have no insurance.

 

Take my hat off to you Sir, I respect that.

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Last time I bought a car from a dealer my insurance company faxed a cover note to them with the registration number of the car I was buying - when I picked up the car it was taxed ( I had to pay for it beforehand).

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i was given 7 days free days insurance cover which i did use to tax the vehicle so that was not a problem. my point is i was told by the dealer i would be fine over the weekend & not to worrie, i'd be fine if i explaind i just bought the car and was unable to tax it yet. im getting the picture that this was not true and the car should of been taxed befor driven and if caught i would of been liable.

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I would suggest that the dealer gave bad advice. Having just purchased a car is no defence for having no road tax. You would be liable if pulled up by the police. Obviously some police officers are understanding and would let you on your way, however most would report you to the DVLA.

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As far as I know, dealers are not allowed to release the car without all the legal documentation. I bought one several years ago and the dealer took me to the PO for a tax disc for the reason stated.

 

The above was a small dealer (had less than 30 cars). Other cars I have bought (or attended at the purchase), have been from a variety of main and small dealers. All were old cars and all insisted a valid insurance certificate was produced (usually faxed to them by insurance company) and tax disc before leaving their premises. Apart from the dealer who took me to the PO, all the others added the tax disc fee to my purchase then collected the tax disc themselves.

 

Having experienced the above on over 10 occasions (in different City/Towns) I assumed it was compulsory. Maybe, it is just "good practice".

 

Failure to display a tax disc is a criminal offence. It can be argued that handing over the keys to a car that is known to be untaxed is "aiding & abetting" a crime. I have no idea if the police would try (or have tried) prosecutions on dealers. I would say dealers are taking risks though as they are a key group of people who can limit car tax evasion. If some-one drove uninsured from a garage and had a accident involving fatalities, then the police would probably throw the book at anyone they could.

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Failure to display a tax disc is a criminal offence. It can be argued that handing over the keys to a car that is known to be untaxed is "aiding & abetting" a crime. I have no idea if the police would try (or have tried) prosecutions on dealers. I would say dealers are taking risks though as they are a key group of people who can limit car tax evasion. If some-one drove uninsured from a garage and had a accident involving fatalities, then the police would probably throw the book at anyone they could.

 

I disagree. Firstly no road tax is not a criminal offence. If the police stop you they do not prosecute but send the details to the DVLA who themselves take you to court.

Handing over keys to a vehicle without road tax cannot be seen as aiding and abetting, because maybe the vehicle isn't actually going to be used on the road. I have sold cars that are going to be exported, or are going into a private collection and will never be used on the UK roads again. I have sold vehicles to people who don't have a driving licence, the car is a birthday or christmas present for somebody else. It has been up to those individuals to employ a driver to move the car. It is not my responsibility what somebody does with an item once I have sold it to them. If they choose themselves to break the law I cannot see how I could be held responsible. I have on occasions advised buyers to leave the car where it is and come back when they have road tax, some do whilst others laugh and go on their merry way. I would say that my only responsibility with the vehicle lies with the roadworthyness of it.

I would bring up my point again about the vehicles I send to auction each week. If it was illegal then BCA would be out of business next week.

Many a time I have come out from a car auction and have seen the police sitting at the side of the road waiting to pick up private people coming out in newly purchased cars, ready to pounce for no MoT insurance etc. and the only person they prosecute is the man or woman sitting in the driver's seat.

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Firstly no road tax is not a criminal offence.

 

Correct, but failing to display road tax is a criminal offence

 

Handing over keys to a vehicle without road tax cannot be seen as aiding and abetting, because maybe the vehicle isn't actually going to be used on the road... It is not my responsibility what somebody does with an item once I have sold it to them. If they choose themselves to break the law I cannot see how I could be held responsible.

 

Agreed. The responsibility would be completely of the person driving the vehicle.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi Guys

Been in the car trade all my life and the main reason i would not tax a car with my trade policy is because the car would then be put in my name so if a car needs taxed then its up to the buyer to tax car Some car dealers will tell you whatever just to get the sale

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