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Hi all people of the forum. Any help/advice on this one will be appreciated.
I recieved a pcn for parking in a loading bay on sunday just gone (02/12/2007). I parked their whilst experiencing pains in my abdomen and had the need to visit the loo. There was a massive que for the town centre car park and all pay & display slots were full. If i drove any longer, i felt that there would have been an accidnet as I couldnt drive with the pains. The nearest place, safest and without causing anyone problems/blocking anyone(considering the stores by the loading bays were closed and it was a sunday) I parked in the loading bay.
Cut the story short after i returned feeling a stone lighter (he he), i had a ticket on my screen. The loading bay has no times/days stated, only has the loading sign with a lorry picture, and double yellow lines.
My PCN reg for vehicle is rite, the colour is meant to be yellow but says orange & the vehcile make only says make (renault) and does not say model. However the chimps normally photograph the car.
Is it worth me appealing on the grounds that I was not in a fit state to drive and thats why I parked up and after feeling better returned to vehicle?
Or is it worth mentioning the PCN vehcile colour error and the model not being recorded - not sure if these are valid points as they photograph the car?
You can try an informal appeal, but I don't think that you can take it any further without some medical evidence (doctor's letter, hospital admission, etc.)
I assume that this is a Council-issued pcn and not a private one?
The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week. The colour of the car is not needed and unless completely different will not get you off.
The colour they have of my car is orange instead of yellow,
It is a council issue ticket (red jacket wardens)
What do you guys reckon?
Also, if my appeal is unsuccessful, do I have to pay the full amount or can i still get a reduction within 14 days? Im not sure if appealing over-rides the chance of me paying half the cost with 14 days of notice.
The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week. The colour of the car is not needed and unless completely different will not get you off.
Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the pcn or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.
Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.
You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.
Is there any letter template available for me to follow, maybe a link?
The time is correct, date is correct, location is correct, it gives me the attendant number and a contravention code of 25.
Also grean and mean mentioned:
"The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week"
On the ticket it says:
....parking attendant wv107 who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occured:
parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading.
Is the offence right? or should there be another ofence as there are no times and the loading bay restriction is 24/7?
Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the pcn or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.
Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.
You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.
Be careful, this is not law. It may be "best practice" but you should not rely on this.
A council that does not follow this may get criticised by a sympathetic adjudicator for failing to treat the motorist fairly but it is not a statutory defence.
Since you are lucky enough to live in decriminlised parking fine council, you could challange the ticket's issue.
Decriminilised parking is against the Bill of Rights Act 1689.
Because you may not have the right to challenge this ticket in court. or before a jury.
How do you know the adjudicator will act in your best interest and not the council's?
In my Council the ticket is issued by a police officer and police traffic officer. This is a legal practice as it gives the individual the right to challaenge the ticket in a court of LAW.
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Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the pcn or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.
Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.
You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.
Please can you back this up with legislation or case law? There is no requirement under the RTA 1991 for the colour of the car to be on the pcn.
There is no requirement to freeze the discount period and making frivolous appeals when you are clearly in contravention is a waste of money. Always check before making an appeal that the discount will be held pending first reps.
Since you are lucky enough to live in decriminlised parking fine council, you could challange the ticket's issue.
Decriminilised parking is against the Bill of Rights Act 1689.
Because you may not have the right to challenge this ticket in court. or before a jury.
How do you know the adjudicator will act in your best interest and not the council's?
In my Council the ticket is issued by a police officer and police traffic officer. This is a legal practice as it gives the individual the right to challaenge the ticket in a court of LAW.
Any letter templates here on this forum in relation to my situation to help me? or doesn anyone have any that they could mail me?
Cheers people, really appreciate all the feedback
Templates don't really work for this type of ticket.
Scan and post both sides of the ticket (pemove stuff that could identify you).
In most cases, for a pcn to be valid and enforceable there must have been three things:
a) Lawful parking restrictions
b) Stopping in contravention of those restrictions
c) Lawful enforcement processes.
In your case, unless you can show that you have a challenge to either a) or b), you need to focus on c) and that is why the first thing to do is to share the PCN.
Please can you back this up with legislation or case law? There is no requirement under the RTA 1991 for the colour of the car to be on the pcn.
There is no requirement to freeze the discount period and making frivolous appeals when you are clearly in contravention is a waste of money. Always check before making an appeal that the discount will be held pending first reps.
I am unable to quote the legislation and it may well be that it is only "code of practice". However, it would appear that appeals can (though not always) be won this way.
I am unable to quote the legislation and it may well be that it is only "code of practice". However, it would appear that appeals can (though not always) be won this way.
There is no legal requirement for the colour to be on the pcn at all and its exclusion is unlikely to get you off a PCN for that reason. A code of practice from the London Councils also states model, make and colour are NOT required but will add further weight to a Councils case if included.
G&M is, of course. absolutely right. Anybody who actually bothers to reads the Act can see that.
There is no requirement for the colour for the vehicle to be on the ticket.
However, if it is and it is dramatically wrong, it could be used to point to a lack of ability on the part of the PA to enter anything else on the pcn correctly.
Lack of or wrong colour, on its own, is not something that I would gamble on.
the ticket has apcoa written on the top, this must be some company on behalf of council. do they have the power to get registered keepers details from dvla?
the car was bought a month ago and i havent got round to registering it on my name yet.
I can scan the ticket, scanner not working. I dont know what to do, times running out now. How shall i appeal on what grounds? the stomach problem or the colour of the vehicle not being right? or both?
Got until tomorrow to submit letter, going to hand it in at council and get a stamped date reciept!
the ticket has apcoa written on the top, this must be some company on behalf of council. do they have the power to get registered keepers details from dvla?
the car was bought a month ago and i havent got round to registering it on my name yet.
I can scan the ticket, scanner not working. I dont know what to do, times running out now. How shall i appeal on what grounds? the stomach problem or the colour of the vehicle not being right? or both?
Got until tomorrow to submit letter, going to hand it in at council and get a stamped date reciept!
Ah, was the loading bay on a public road or on private land?
we signed, but he told me to send it off and didnt send it himself. so ive got the v5 all signed, just never got round to sending it off, which i should have done.
It would be good to see a copy of the pcn. My opinion is that you should try and appeal to the council on the stomach problem. As I posted previously, the council should suspend the PCN while they consider your appeal and they should give you a further 14 days to pay (at the reduced rate) if they decide against you.
However, if/when they decide against you, I dont think it would be worth appealing to NPAS because orange/yellow is too similar and you would have to prove any medical condition.
A complication arises because the V5 has not been processed. This means that if you dont pay, a notice to owner will be sent to the previous owner and he/she will have to prove they sold the car to you or they will be liable for the fine. Be careful beacuse the V5 states "It is an offence not to notify DVLA when a vehicle changes hands"
Council Issue PCN is it invalid?
for parking in a loading bay on sunday just gone (02/12/2007). I parked their whilst experiencing pains in my abdomen and had the need to visit the loo. There was a massive que for the town centre car park and all pay & display slots were full. If i drove any longer, i felt that there would have been an accidnet as I couldnt drive with the pains. The nearest place, safest and without causing anyone problems/blocking anyone(considering the stores by the loading bays were closed and it was a sunday) I parked in the loading bay.
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Originally Posted by green_and_mean
