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    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Petition-ban tractors from public roads during rush hour


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true it can be a pain, but if these ' duffers' werent out and about, sowing and reaping and bringing in the cows and whatever, we wouldnt have milk for our cornflakes.

Please note that although my advice is offered, you should consult your legal representative before taking ANY action.

 

 

have a nice day !!

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Guest louis wu

What an ill thought out and badly worded peition.

 

Do we ban all tractors, even those in the most rural areas, and those that only need to travel a few hundred yards from one field to another.

 

Seems that whoever's dumb idea this was should have put a little more time and effort into the wording of this, as this petition in it's current looks like the work of a primary school student.

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All these points have been raised on another forum I am a member on

 

The facts are-

 

1.they don't pay road tax

 

2.they run on rebated diesel

 

3.because of the above,they are limited in the distance they are allowed to travel from their farm

 

4.they disregard point 3

 

5.they insist on driving into towns at the busiest times of the day with enormous queues behind them-and almost invariably refuse to pull over to let people past when the opportunity arises

 

6.I don't see many fields or cows in the centre of towns

 

 

the fact is they are just too lazy to change their wellies to let them get into their cars when they want to go somewhere-so they cause traffic jams by using their John Deere-and they are probably running their cars on rebated diesel as well.....

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Guest louis wu

That would make a little more sense than the sad excuse of a petition currently being offered, although I think it would be hard work condensing all relevant facts into one petition

 

I did not say I disagree with the issue, but how do you expect it to be take seriously with the current text.

 

Your post, however, is a bit like tarring them all with the same brush, and I am sure you will agree not all Tractor drivers act the way you describe, that is just silly.

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  • 11 months later...

Good idea for tactors, it stops all the boy racers getting flashed and then complaining they got 6 points for doing 90mph on a speed limit of 70 mph.

Foot

Right

Off

Gas.

 

Save yourself some brass and no points on your licence.

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Good idea for tactors, it stops all the boy racers getting flashed and then complaining they got 6 points for doing 90mph on a speed limit of 70 mph.

Foot

Right

Off

Gas.

 

Save yourself some brass and no points on your licence.

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How about banning City dwellers from country roads during

 

Lambing Season

Planting Season

Harvest time

 

and then the city dwellers with rural retreats as second homes would never be able to pollute the country side:rolleyes: at weekends, and then maybe farmers and their families could afford a house near where they work

 

If you want to ban something get rid of Caravans

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its bizzar the things people will think of when bored

this falls into the catagory of ban cockrels from crowing.

yes i hate being behind them and caravans too but its life,get used to it,take a chill pill or just move to the city

I`ve never seen a tractor in the middle of liverpool or any other major city

but i do drive a milk float and i`ve had people shouting at me for not going fast enough tho i`m flat out at the time

Another one is shouting get your brake lights fixed.DUH it doesn`t go fast enough to need to use the brakes

Life`s too fast sloooooooooooooooooow down,leave earlier whatever it takes

S.C

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What is it that makes some people blame other road users for delays, when the main cause of delays is.....cars. Not horses, bikes, tractors, buses but miles of stationary cars in line. Not a lot of point trying to drive at high speed when at the next village, the serious hold-ups begin and the average speed is horse and cart era!:D

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The law states that agricultural vehicles using Red Diesel may legally be used on the public road when travelling from one part of the owner's land to another part of the same owners land. The maximum milage allowed being 8 miles per week.

 

What is needed, is for this legislation to be enforced.

 

The OP and I live in N.Ireland, where agribusiness and those involved in it have an apparently untouchable god-like status.

 

Ive seen tractors being used as a shopping vehicle, with a grumpy looking sod sat in the driving seat, with a roll up fag hanging out of the corner of his mouth and the missus on the outside of the cab, clutching Sainsburys bags leaving the aforementioned supermarket!

Edited by noomill060
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think the police have more important things to do than arrest some farmer cos he`s doing too many miles using pink diesel

the amount of people who bothered to sign this petition would seem to indicate how important it is in the great sceme of things if its not tractors it would be caravans or milk floats or other people driving their cars too slowly.

some people will always want to go faster than the person in front

people should plan their journey time better to account for such things

every morning i see them on their way to work some actually try to get as close to me as they possibly can cos i have the gall to be driving a milkfloat down the road and slowing them down on their rush to work,one day i had two bottles of milk knocked out of my hands by someone`s door mirror so you can imagine how close they got and in my two years of doing the job i have had to pick up more squashed family pets than i can count.

people need to slow down cos there will always be something that gets in their way and one day it will,and no doubt has been on occasion a person who`s life they will take all in the name of getting there quicker

S.C

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IF I`VE BEEN OF HELP PLEASE TICKLE MY SCALES :D

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SC- you live in Liverpool and clearly have no idea of the road system in N.Ireland and the insane delays caused by selfish bumpkins bouncing along on 70 year old Fordsons and wee grey Fergies! :eek:

 

 

(And they only only use them because they dont know how to operate the traction engine, which is quietly rusting away in the barn!)

Edited by noomill060
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