Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I'm just discovered this forum, had a quick read and there seems to be a lot of good advice to be had here so here goes.
I moved into a one bed flat in London in March this year. I live there alone. It was arranged through a local estate agent. The letting agreement stated in black and white that the monthly rent included all bills, including council tax. It was signed by myself, the landlord and a witness.
In April, I received a council tax bill from Enfield council with my name on it. I contacted them immeditaley to explain that I had a tennants agreement stating that the landlord was responsible for paying the CT for this property. I was told over the phone that that information would be added to the database and that they would not persue me any longer. In the following months, I still received reminders of the unpaid CT but I just ignored them.
In August, I received a final notice of unpaid CT from the Council. I rang them again and was told that I had been wrongly advised before and it was in fact me who was responsible for the debt. I explained once more about the tennancy agreement and was asked to send a copy of it in the post to them. I did with a covering letter explaining the situation.
About a week later I rang them again to see if they had got my letter. They said they had but it made no difference to them, I was still responsible for the debt. I should explain at this stage that I had been on the phone to the landlord on numerous occasions up to now asking why the CT hadn't been paid before and to sort it out ASAP. He made loads of lame excuses about his wife being the one who took care of that and she hadn't been well lately, etc etc but she would make a payment very soon. But she/he didn't and the case went to court and was granted a liability order and court costs.
Anyway, to cut the rest of the story short. At this moment, I can't get in contact with the landlord at all, he doesn't answer the phone. I stopped paying rent about a month and a half ago in the hope that the he would contact me to sort this out but he hasn't. I also stopped paying so I would at least save the money to pay off some of the debt that he owes if need be but then again, he still has my deposit. The estate agents have washed their hands of responsibility and Enfield Council have passed the debt to equita who today sent me a letter saying that they have "contacted a removal contractor to be in my area in the next few weeks".
From what I've read, baliffs are not allowed to break into the property but I'm still pooing my pants. I have a lot of nice things in the flat that I worked really had for. It's on the ground floor at the front of the house and I'm out most of the day at work with no one to keep an eye on things for me and I feel totaly alone and stressed out which is effecting my job because it's been all I can think about for months now.
What should I do? Was thinking about phoning the council again to say that I will NOT pay anything to the baliffs but I will pay the whole thing off to them and nobody else. I'll then obviously have to take the landlord to the small's claims court or something to get my money back bit at least I'll have the baliffs off my back.
Number one - DO NOT STOP PAYING YOUR RENT - as within he can then easily evict you.
Have you spoken to the Letting agents as they should know that he is liable to the council tax.
When you sent a copy of the letter, why did they state that it made any difference. As far as I am aware you have a congtract with the landlord and he has defaulted on that.
Sorry not a huge amount of info, but I will have a think and get back to you but did not want you to feel no one was taking an interest.
Safronflowers is spot on. Do not stop paying your rent. As mentioned you could face eviction and also if your rent does include payment of council tax you are in a much stronger position if you still pay your rent/council tax to the landlord when negotiating with the local authority.
What sort of property are you in ben? Is it a house in multiple occupation do you know. For example, do some of the tenants share bathrooms, toilets or kitchens? What type of tenancy do you have? How long have you lived there? The reason I ask is that in most cases tenants in a house of multiple occupation are not liable for council tax, the landlord is. There are also other situations when the owner/landlord is liable so it is important to establish liability before agreeing to pay anything. With the tenancy agreement you mention, I suspect the landlord is liable and not you.
I would not advise paying the local authority for council tax you may not owe with the view of taking action to recover it from the landlord after, so it is important to clarify liability before making payment. I know this is what you have tried to do but stick with it. Do not let the bailiff in, you do not have to deal with them and as long as you ensure your home is locked and all windows and doors are shut, they cannot force their way in.
You will get good sound advice via this website so try not to get to stressed by the bailiffs. If we can clarify if you are liable or not then you can decide on what action to take then.
To clarify, the house is a one big Edwardian property split into 4 separate self contained apartments, very up nicely done as well by the way. That's why I'm struggling to understand what game the Landlord is playing. The rent on my place alone is 850 a month and it's the smallest flat in the house!
One person at the council did give me a clue as to why my name appeared on the CT bill. It's because I was a fool to tell them my forwarding address when I moved from my last flat because I wanted a receipt for payment of my last months CT on that place (which they never sent anyway!)
The reason why I stopped paying rent is 1. to get a response from the landlord 2. I really don't believe he will ever pay the CT debt so I need to save the money to pay it off myself which is looking every more likely.
Morning - You must pay the rent arrears as soon as possible this is essential. In your contract does it clearly state that the Landlord is liable for the council tax, if so take the contract to the Council offices this morning and show them and demand that they take the debt off the bailiffs whist they are investigating this issue.
Do the other tenants have the same contract as yourself regarding the Council Tax? Are they enduring any issues as well?
Did you receive any paperwork prior to the bailiff getting in touch with you and is the Liability in your name of just for your address?
Would it be possible for you to scan the contract, removing any personal information.
Ok Ben, I will look for some more info for you this evening, unless someone else is able to help you in the meantime. Could I just ask, do you know the situation with the other tenants, are they being pursued for council tax now as well? Do they also have a tenancy agreement that states the landlord will pay the council tax? Is the council tax you are being asked for just for your flat, make sure its not for the whole house. Also, how long have you been a tenant and if you know, what type of tenancy agreement do you have. Answers to these points may help point to a solution.
Ok, when I moved in on the 24th of March, I signed a 6 months tennancy agreement that clearly states that the rent includes the council tax. When the 6 months was nearly up, the landlord sent me a letter saying that I would need to vacate the property at the end of the contract because he wanted to re-develop the house. But, soon after, he said on the phone that the re-development might not happen after all and I was welcome to stay on in the flat. We did not sign another contract to that effect though.
At present, 2 other flats in the property are also still occupied but I don't know about their council tax situation although the estate agent has said that I'm the only one who has complained so I'm assuming they don't have the same problem I do.
Here's the last letter I received from the Council. Since then I received the notice of liability order and then the baliffs letter, nothing else. All the correspondance has my specific flat, 2b, as the address.
Ok - so how much is outstanding/is it the whole liability order or merely the Council Tax from August onwards? If so I would say and someone will correct me if I am wrong! That you are entitled to deduct what is owing from march to August from the outstanding rent as you will have been overpaying by this amount. As the Landlord stated that there was no change to the tenancy agreement that you would be entitled to deduct the council tax from the rent as well. If the Landlord did decide to get a possesion order for outstanding rent, then I think that a judge would view his actions in a very poor light. Do though when you have worked out the figures, carry on paying the rent less the council tax.
The outstanding amount is somewhere in the region of £1400. I will have been in the flat for 8 months on the 24th of November. 1400 divided by 12 months = 116.66 x 8 months = 933.28. So to date, the landlord owes £933 for council tax. Monthly rental is 850 and I've missed 1 months rent so far. So, if I pay the whole debt myself right now, he still owes me £83.
Does that make sense?
Sadly when a Liability Order is in place you lose the right to pay by instalements so all of it is now due - speak to the council and explain that you can pay the £850 now if they call the bailiffs off and that you will clear the rest of the debt from now until the end of March, they may not accept to them the most important thing is that they get the money. Write a detailed letter explaining your actions to your landlord, but be prepared to get a Notice of Possession. If he is thinking of evicting you anyways, I think it is probably time to look for somewhere else. But get your Council tax sorted ASAP. If he takes action regarding the rent you do have a good case regarding him not honouring his side of the contract by not paying your council tax.
I've decided that I'm going to pay the whole debt off (but to the council and not the bailiffs) and then I can decide how to handle the landlord and what to do next about the rent etc.
The final question is what should I do if the council refuse to take payment and refer me to equita instead? Should I then just ignore equita until they pass the debt back to the council? I read on the forum that they would have to do that if they can't collect the payment from me. Is that correct?
I really don't want to deal with them at all, I'd rather sort it out with the council.
Basically the property will have been split into 4 seperate assesments by the valuation office, attracting 4 seperate charges. For all intents and purposes 4 different properties.
Council Tax, regardless of what your tenag says, is the liability of you, this is what the letter you rec'd from the Council (badly) tried to explain. Council tax legislation clearly addresses this sort of situation and stipulates that you as the tenant must be held liable.
The only recourse you would have is to pay the ctax and then claim for it from the landlord. If they fail to pay it to you then you can persue them through the small claims court. However, the Council can do nothing but hold you responsible. I would say pay your ctax and rent up to date and then demand recompence from the landlord. Do not offset it in your rent as unpaid rent can allow him to bring action against you. If you pay all the rent he has no case against you and you can consentrate on the claim you have with him.
Bad Landlord = Council Tax Debt = Equita
who today sent me a letter saying that they have "contacted a removal contractor to be in my area in the next few weeks".
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