Thread: SKS Vs EGG

Hi all

I am out of work at the moment and on Job Seekers Allowance. I haven’t been able to keep up my payments to Egg for the last 3 months and notified them of my situation. They basically said pay your Arrears and Overlimit amount or we will serve you with a Default Notice.

I received a default notice Served under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Act 1974 stating that to remedy the Breach I have to pay the Arrears and Overlimit amount by the 20th November 2007 otherwise they will be taking further action (legal proceedings, Registering the default,etc).

I requested my CCA, please see attached.

Could anyone please let me know if this is a valid CCA?

Thanks
SKS

Hi all

After sending Egg a 'S.A.R - (Subject access request)' request and the letter drafted by Shane5408 (see 14th November 2007 reply above) on 15th November 2007, I didn't hear back from them apart from a letter dated the 24th November 2007 stating that on checking my account I should have by now received the signed credit agreement and that I can view the Terms & Conditions on the website at any time.

The whole point of the second letter to them was the fact that they did not supply the Original T&Cs that the purported agreement makes reference to.

I didn't hear back from Egg apart from a letter from CapQuest and a letter from H L Legal in January 2008 threating to take me to court.

This week Monday 1st September 2008, I received a letter from a solicitor and a Court Claim from Egg. The Solicitors are 'Bryan Carter & Co'. The letter stated that they have issued litigation proceedings in the county court and I should hear from them in the next 48 hours (both arrived on the same day and were dated the same). I have also noticed that the Egg head office address has changed from the Derby address to, 'CitiGroup Centre, Canada Square, London, E14 5LB'.....

My husband had a very similar problem. Please see the following thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ghlight=im4347

Pete advised him to send the CPR letter which he did, and then defended the claim. The last he heard from this was November 2007 and the letter from Court saying that the Claim was stayed.

I have now decided to send a CPR letter to Egg and defend the claim, but I would be grateful if someone could advise me whether I should do exactly as my husbands claim, or anything different?

Many thanks,

SKS

Originally Posted by im4347

Hi all

After sending Egg a 'S.A.R - (Subject access request)' request and the letter drafted by Shane5408 (see 14th November 2007 reply above) on 15th November 2007, I didn't hear back from them apart from a letter dated the 24th November 2007 stating that on checking my account I should have by now received the signed credit agreement and that I can view the Terms & Conditions on the website at any time.

The whole point of the second letter to them was the fact that they did not supply the Original T&Cs that the purported agreement makes reference to.

I understand you are disputing the enforceability of CCA by reason of non-supply of T&C "that the purported agreement makes reference to" (exactly what form of words was this reference?) whereas Egg say that as an online company their T&C are on view on the website at any time.

This is a similar dispute to the following thread which has gone quiet. You might like to politely PM blades65 to see if there is any helpful info from one who travelled the route before you:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ne#post1648683

What was the date of your CCA?

Good luck.

Hi all

I sent a CPR letter to Egg at the registered adderss (Citigroup Centre, London), didn't hear anything back and I sent a defence letter to court (see below for both letters).

I received a letter from Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors (BC) after the defence had been filed and the court sent them a copy of my defence. Their letter enclosed my CCA and T&Cs for Dec 2005 and Oct 2007, and my statements. They have also stated in the letter that I have 14 days to contact them with a proposal for repayments or they will apply to the court to strike out the defence for summary judgment.

I have ony 7 days left, as I have been away, and now i'm worried as what to do next. I would really appreciate some help. :-?

Thanks,
SKS

My CPR letter (template I used from this site):

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.
2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor
b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Egg Plc.
c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.
d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).
e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.
f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.
g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998
h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.
i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

My Defence Letter (Thanx to Pt2537):

Claim number

Between

xxxxxxxxxxx- Claimant

and

xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

Defence

• Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

• The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

• The claimants’ particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

a)The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the account number of the agreement, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any Notice of Assignment required for the claimant to have a legitimate right of action for the purported debt or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant’s claim.

b)A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

c)A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

4.Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and do not know what case I have to meet.

5.In respect of that which is denied, on xx/xx/2007 I requested that the claimant provide a true copy of the executed credit agreement, which they claim exists between parties pursuant to section 78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) sets out that the claimant must comply with such request in 12 working days of receipt of such request.

6.Section 78 (6) consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out the consequences of failure to comply with such request and states s78 (6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

7.It is drawn to the courts attention that the claimant has failed to comply with my request and is in clear default of its obligations under s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and it is averred that the claimant has no right of action until such time as the default is remedied and the true copy of the executed agreement is produced before the defendant containing the prescribed terms under Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and signed in the prescribed manner by the debtor and creditor

8.Therefore since the documents have not been supplied as requested pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I deny that I am liable to the claimant and put the claimant to strict proof that such enforceable agreement between parties exists

9.Further to the case, in an attempt to ascertain what grounds the claimant is bringing this action and to allow me to prepare my defence I requested on xx/xx/2007 the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the Credit Agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices, a transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on, including any default notices or termination notice, and a copy of the Notice of Assignment required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action.

10.To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested

11.The courts attention is drawn to the fact that the without disclosure of the requested documentation pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules I have not yet had the opportunity to asses if the documentation the claimant claims to be relying upon to bring this action even contains the prescribed terms required in Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) which was amended by Consumer Credit (Agreements) (amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482). The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

12.The courts attention is also drawn to the fact that where an agreement does not have the prescribed terms as stated in point 11 it is not compliant with section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore not enforceable by s127 (3). The courts attention is also drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482) the agreement cannot be enforced

13.Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the particulars of claim

14.It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

15.Notwithstanding point 13, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

16.Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

17.Without Disclosure of the relevant requested documentation I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable to the claimant, nor am I able to asses if the alleged agreement is properly executed, contain the required prescribed terms, or correct figures to make such an agreement enforceable by virtue of s127 Consumer Credit Act 1974

18.In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant’s statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.

19.Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out the claimants case, it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules

20.Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis for doing so, having failed to provide sufficient information required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate this claim, or indeed to provide a reasonable time period to investigate this matter, and having failed to investigate a dispute as required by the OFT debt collection Guidelines I believe the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act1970. Furthermore, the Claimant’s behaviour is entirely vexatious and wholly unreasonable.

21.I respectfully ask the permission of the court to amend this defence when the claimant provides the above documents

Statement of Truth

I XXXXXXXX, believe the above statement to be true and factual

Signed …………………

Date