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I have recently purchased a Blackberry handheld from Carphone Warehouse, mainly for it's capability to be used as internet modem (so I can connect my laptop pc to the internet using the mobile phone).
While it technically works (i. e. my PC can talk to the mobile and I could go online), reception in my area is so weak that the connection is hard to establish, and pretty unreliable once it is established.
The bigger nuisance is that I can't connect from within my flat - have to move into fresh air to have a chance, and even then it doesn't always work. Sometimes even phone calls don't get through, and these require less signal strength than data connections.
Anyway, I approached Carphone Warehouse suggesting I step back from purchase and accompanying ISP contract (Orange), based on the consumer protection act and on grounds of the product not being fit for the intended purpose.
They replied I couldnt step back since Orange had changed it's policy and would not allow that anymore, too many people would have taken advantage of their statutory right and the phones would have come back damaged or otherwise degraded.
My question is: can Orange really strip me off my statutory rights?
I can't believe it, still I'd like to hear your opinion... and of course any hint how to proceed from here.
You have 14 days to try the product and return it if unsuitable. CW are talking nonsense. If you are out with the 14 day period then the contract is confirmed. Incidentally, any mobile contract usually confirms that lack of a signal is NOT a basis to rescind the contract, hence the 14 days are important to check for its suitability.
CPW are not talking nonsense, there is no 14 day money back guarantee anymore, it stopped early in October. purchases over the phone and web are obviously still covered under 7 days distance selling regs.
Anything I post is my own opinion and views based on experience. My posts may not represent the views of my Employer, work collegues, or my Mum, i thought them up all by myself!
Well, that's exactly the question. Can orange really just dump a statutory right? Or is the 14 day money back guarantee not part of these rights?
I consider my case both a case of mis-selling and the hardware not being fit for the purpose... should be a good case, methinks. However I'm not sure, and before I make the horses shy...?
Any hint welcome, deadline is Friday (09. November)
CPW are not talking nonsense, there is no 14 day money back guarantee anymore, it stopped early in October. purchases over the phone and web are obviously still covered under 7 days distance selling regs.
Who said there was a money back guarantee?
You have a right to ensure the product and service is as described, if it doesn't, you have up to 14 days to resolve the issues or the contract is confirmed. In fact, you are supporting this an a similar thread.
If you are now saying that CW are at liberty to dispense with this, so that a customer can sign up for 2 years yet find he has no acceptable mobile coverage once the handset is activated, then they'll be spending a lot of time in court defending their stance. In any event, CW, Talk Talk and AOL are three firms I've found it best to avoid. I'm sure others feel the same.
You have a right to ensure the product and service is as described, if it doesn't, you have up to 14 days to resolve the issues or the contract is confirmed. In fact, you are supporting this an a similar thread.
If you are now saying that CW are at liberty to dispense with this, so that a customer can sign up for 2 years yet find he has no acceptable mobile coverage once the handset is activated, then they'll be spending a lot of time in court defending their stance. In any event, CW, Talk Talk and AOL are three firms I've found it best to avoid. I'm sure others feel the same.
It was called a 14 day money back guarantee, it was offered by orange for all new connections.
Yes, i did in fact support it in another thread, with the words 'while it was still available' as that posters issue was pre October, he would still been able to avail himself of the 14 day returns policy of Orange, which was a courtesy and NOT a statutory right. please see my above post - 14 day returns ended early October
You have a right to ensure the product is as described - the handset works ok, and service - you can make and recieve calls/texts and use other services offered and/or charged for according to the Network coverage. Mobile coverage is not guaranteed 100% and certainly not inside buildings (due to certain construction ect)
Anything I post is my own opinion and views based on experience. My posts may not represent the views of my Employer, work collegues, or my Mum, i thought them up all by myself!
While it technically works (i. e. my PC can talk to the mobile and I could go online), reception in my area is so weak that the connection is hard to establish, and pretty unreliable once it is established.
The bigger nuisance is that I can't connect from within my flat - have to move into fresh air to have a chance, and even then it doesn't always work. Sometimes even phone calls don't get through, and these require less signal strength than data connections.
Sir
If you told them this is why you wanted the phone they are in breach of contract. Write to CPW and tell them you want to cancel as they have breached the contract (they cannot provide the service agreed). The 14 day moneyback guarantee was changed to stop people who change their minds, but this is not why you are cancelling
I have just cancelled an orange contract on this basis with the help of Consumer Direct.
This won't be easy though as CPW are difficult to deal with and will do everything they can as not to lose their commission (rather than sorting it and having a happy customer).
My problem was with a different retailer and it has taken since 5th Nov to sort out (the phone was retuned today).
If you told them this is why you wanted the phone they are in breach of contract..
Before you suggest this route, have you actually READ the contract? I don't think so, as ever since I got my first mobile in 1984 every contract has stated the network cannot beheld responsible for deficiencies of coverage. In fact, 100% 'no service' anywhere is not a beach of contract, although even with 99% population coverage there will be gaps.
So - if you're looking for a breach, you'll need to find something else, as network coverage isn't guaranteed.
If you told them this is why you wanted the phone they are in breach of contract. Write to CPW and tell them you want to cancel as they have breached the contract (they cannot provide the service agreed). The 14 day moneyback guarantee was changed to stop people who change their minds, but this is not why you are cancelling
Seems as if I have been successful!
Here's what happened:
Phone activated : 30 October
Tried to return to CPW : almost immediately
Branch refused to take it (saying it would be sent back to me)
Seeking Advice through Office of Fair Trade (Consumer Action Group)
Letter to CPW (FAO Managing Director, 1 Portal Way, London W3 6RS)
informing about situation & rescind of contract
- on base of breach of contract (as you say)
- setting a deadline of 14 days to respond to CPW
- copy of letter to orange, asking for advice how to proceed
Neither CPW nor Orange responding within 14 days
On day 15 after first letter
- sending second letter to CPW announcing phone return
On Day 16 after first letter:
- recieving response from CPW in reply to second letter
- adressing me with the wrong name (though sent to correct address)
- containing several typos and at least one misconstructed sentence
- saying phone needs to be returned in 'as sold conditions'
- and ruling out rescind should phone have been used (? how am I supposed to find it doesn't work without using it... ? )
- me replying instantaneously that they missed my deadline and I expect them to cancel the contract
On day 17 after first letter :
- returning phone to CPW by special delivery
On Day 20 after first letter
- Orange responding in writing, asking me to get in touch
'...to discuss matter further'
- ORANGE confirming a 14 day monezy back guarantee (!!!)
On Day 21 after first letter
- Talking to Orange on the phone
(having sent explanatory email beforehand)
- explaining abortive attempts to return the phone to CPW
- pointing out that I kept the phone because of misinformation
and would have sent back had I known better
Orange were VERY HELPFUL AND UNDERSTANDING
- disconnecting the account with immediate effect
- asking me to settle the outstanding invoice for first month
(done immediately via debit card on phone)
AND THAT'S IT!
They won't send me any further invoices I would have to worry about (there will be one, but this will amount to zero) and CPW has it's phone back. CPW has not responded to my letter yet, but it doesn't matter anymore at this stage.
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INTERESTING POINT:
---------------------------------------------
Orange tried to get in touch with CPW on my behalf in that matter. According to the officer I talked to, CPW refused to talk to Orange on grounds of 'data protection' and 'privacy' (very remarkable attitude)
Should anything happen that's worth to be mentioned,
I will keep you posted.
I think what rescued me was keeping Orange posted about the correspondence with CPW and proactively seeking contact with them.
Sir
P. S: Carphone's Postal Adress
------------------------------
Carphone Warehouse
-FAO Managing Director-
Statutory Rights Cancelled by Orange
).
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Originally Posted by OrangePrimate
