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Right! DPR sent off special delivery to Natwest today. If you don't do this, then they'll fob you off by saying that statements over 3 years require a special process that is being 'changed' at the moment so they don't know how long it will take. It is quite obvious that they are doing this to put people off.
Well in my case they have made me determined - I'm not going to stand for any tardiness in response, nor will I put up with anything less than the full amount owed to me.
Here's what I sent (thanks to those of you on the bank forum, I'll make a donation when sucuessful!):
ACCOUNT NUMBERS xxxxxxx and xxxxxxx SORT CODE xxxxx
On the 8th May 2006 I requested a full set of statements for my accounts with your organisation. I followed this up with a phonecall to your customer services number this Saturday (17th June 2006), when I was told the manager of Natwest xxxxx would ring me this Monday (20th June 2006). Nobody ever bothered to ring back.
I rang customer services again on Tuesday 21st June, and was put through to Natwest xxxxx, where I was told there had been a problem with the statements, and that it would take an unspecified amount of time for you to produce statements from more than three years ago. I have therefore cancelled the original request made in your branch (I was assured that the £5 fee per account would be refunded), as this method of obtaining statements has proved to be a complete waste of time and effort.
Therefore, under the data protection act 1998 I request that you supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation since 1st July 2000. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.
Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.
If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please confirm this in your response.
I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. If you do not comply within this time limit, I will take my case to the Information Commissioner. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate and unlawful penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA Subject access request fee.
If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. Please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.
I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch (xxxxx in London)
Should I claim now the cases have been passed to the mercantile court
I got the statements yesterday. All in all I'm owed £841 from Natwest. The question is, following the news that cases are being thrown out of the county courts because a higher court is investigating, is it worth proceeding now, or should I wait to see what is going to happen?
"LEGAL bids to reclaim overdraft charges are being kicked out of county courts because of a test case that could finally force banks to come clean on fees.
In the past week, small claims court orders against Halifax and Lloyds TSB have been rejected by courts in Gloucestershire and Uxbridge, Middlesex, on the grounds that a case has been submitted to a higher court which could set a precedent in these types of cases.
The test case involves a customer in dispute with Lloyds TSB which will be heard by London Mercantile Court. Cases at the Mercantile Court relate to commercial or business matters and are heard by a judge.
In recent months hundreds of current account customers have threatened their banks with court action in a bid to recover charges incurred when they have gone overdrawn accidentally. Banks are not allowed to profit from such charges - they are only supposed to recover the costs of dealing with the problem.
So far no bank has defended its charges in court, resulting in thousands of pounds of payouts to the customers for their charges, lost interest and court costs.
Customers who have taken out court orders against their bank to reclaim charges have had to play a game of nerves. The bank will often leave it until the 11th hour before backing down and paying up.
However, if cases like this were to reach a higher court then a precedent would be set that banks and consumers would have to follow.
The decision from Gloucestershire county court says: 'It is ordered that the hearing be vacated and the allocation of the small claims track cancelled...
'The action be stayed until further order on the basis that there is likely to be a test case before a higher court before the end of the year. The result is likely to reduce the need and/or amount of litigation in these types of cases.'
If a judge were to decide that the bank charges imposed were justified, then customers seeking refunds would have nowhere to turn. However, to prove that the charges were justified a bank would have to prove that it actually costs upwards of £20 to send out a letter to a customer saying they have gone overdrawn, and a further £25 for authorising or bouncing payments.
If the customer were to win, it would effectively mean that banks were guilty of excessive charging. Meanwhile, the City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, has called for the Banking Code Standards Board (BCSB) to clarify its position on customers who have had their current accounts closed after having bank charges refunded.
Last month Money Mail and This is Money revealed that some banks were closing the accounts of customers who had bank charges refunded after complaining.
The FSA, which does not regulate bank accounts, says that in normal circumstances it would not expect financial companies to discriminate against customers who make a complaint.
It has encouraged the BCSB to use this opportunity to demonstrate the value of the code in ensuring fair and reasonable outcomes in disputes. The BCSB says it will decide on its position on account closures at a board meeting set to be held today.
Dont worry about that article - it's all been settled, if you look at the 'general' forum and look at yesterdays posts about a test case, you'll see its all been sorted out. I did hear that the Moneybox on Radio 4 tomorrow will be covering it if your interested, but basically it wasnt thrown out of court, it was just that a couple of cases at county court level were put on 'hold' as Lloyds wanted to bring a 'test case' at a higher court. However Lloyds settled out of court as usual, so business as normal.
hth
Successfully claimed £620 from MBNA
Successfully claimed £350 from Natwest
Assisted other half to claim £820 from Barclays
Helped a friend claim back approx £250 from Halifax.
Thanks Grey lady, that's really useful information. I can't tell you how angry I am about this whole situation: they try and paint you as opportunistic and 'getting free money', when ultimatly they have (edit) MY money from me. As a student, and a recent graduate living close to the breadline I realise that Natwest have caused me all of my money worries over the last 3 years. Going over your limit by £2 sets you up for hundreds of pounds of charges as they engage in their 'legitimate' profit free for all.
My statements arrived in the battered, ripped envelope sent second class using standard office stationary (they put 2 inches of statments in an envelope you'd usually only use for a couple of sheets).
Moderated: please do not put posts that may be seen as libelous .Edited for the protection of the site.
Right, Letter sent yesterday (Saturday 15th July) telling them to pay me my cash back. I guess they'll get it on Monday so I'll start my 14 days from then. Interesting to see what response I get.
I went in there on Friday and got a brush off when I told them "take these charges off my account" when the girl asked me if there was anything else she could do.
My local branch now hate me as I mentioned the appalling customer service I had encountered there in my DPA letter (That I sent recorded delivery to the branch manager).
Won't be surprised iif I get the '**** off in 30 days' letter closing my account soon!
Mate, as I'm sure you must know, branch staff are at the bottom of the pile. We do our best under the guidelines under which we have to work in. To be honest with you, someone saying that customer service is appalling is water off a ducks back. In the contact details the best place to send DPA's is Alex Lyons, address is given in the threads. If someone came into me and said take these charges off my account, depending on the circumstances, I may well say No because I have guidelines for refunds and none of them have a clause saying the charges are unlawful. We are as I said not the ones to get annoyed with but those in the higher echelons of the bank who set the policies and charges. Good Luck to you
I'm kind of in agreement with you - I do find it hard to get angry with them as they have to toe the company line as employees. Equally, they are deliberatly put into this position by head office to deflect any criticism.
I was pretty disgusted that the chaps at the top promised me a call from my branch manager (with regards to some customer service issues I'd been having about getting statements), and ended up getting the newest member of staff to call me - he's a nice chap, but I know full well he's only been working there a couple of months. Seemed pretty cowardly at the time, and was an obvious waste of time. I was not rude or discourtious; but simply (had no option) to tell him there was nothing he could do for me.
Originally Posted by natweststaffmember
Mate, as I'm sure you must know, branch staff are at the bottom of the pile. We do our best under the guidelines under which we have to work in. To be honest with you, someone saying that customer service is appalling is water off a ducks back. In the contact details the best place to send Data Protection Act's is Alex Lyons, address is given in the threads. If someone came into me and said take these charges off my account, depending on the circumstances, I may well say No because I have guidelines for refunds and none of them have a clause saying the charges are unlawful. We are as I said not the ones to get annoyed with but those in the higher echelons of the bank who set the policies and charges. Good Luck to you
I got the Stuart Higley letter today - we've looked at the charges, etc, etc, this isn't the answer you hoped to recieve.
As he has said they've looked into it, I believe it is fine to start a moneyclaim as they have sent their definitive conclusion, and have not mentioned needing any more time etc.
I've picked up a couple more charges... (last month they nicked 3 x £38 from my salary, which is 25% of my post rent income so the spiral begins). Should I just add these onto the claim, as they are the same type of charge, or so I need to send another letter.
PS Last time I went into the bank, they asked if I had 5 minutes to 'see' them so I suspect there is now something nasty on my file.....
Any advice would be welcome. I've got to wait to the end of the month (Friday) for the money to do moneyclaim (if thats what I need to do). I'm currently in non-sleeping mode becuase the snowball of charges means I have no money to eat etc etc and is a constant worry. I had to walk to work today becuase they took the last £20 from my account (I have no idea what that was for - possibly for going overdrawn last month).
Ok I've knocked up this letter. Any comments before I send it? They've given me a response, so I think I can begin action straight away if I don't get anything back in a week or so.....
Plutos
xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
Tel XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
26th July 2006
Stuart Higley
Customer Relations
Ground Floor
National Westminster House
225 Shenley Road
Borehamwood
WD6 1TE
ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxx SORT CODE xxxxxx
Thankyou for your response to my letter of the 15th July.
Unfortunately your response is not acceptable, and I will therefore be pursuing the matter further imminently. You state in your letter that you have investigated the matter fully, and are satisfied that the ‘fees’ should still stand. As you have reached such a decision, I feel I have provided sufficient time for Natwest to do something acceptable about the matter.
It still stands that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.
You refer to my account contract in your letter, but this contract also states that you would conduct yourselves in a manner which complies with UK law. Under UK law, penalties for breach of contract are not enforceable if the penalty exceeds the cost of the breach of contract. With these penalty charges, the charges are clearly completely disproportionate to the minor costs incurred by your organisation when, for example, I breach my overdraft limit. This is especially true as I have a regular monthly income, and the amounts involved are relatively minor.
I calculate that you have now taken a total of £929.00 in charges, and I enclose a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I sent you the breakdown to date in my letter of 15th July.
Given the reasons outlined above, I therefore still require repayment in full of these charges. If I receive no further correspondence, I will bring a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus all costs of claiming without further notice.
In addition, I will write to the Banking Code Standards Board pointing out that being legally unenforceable, Natwest’s terms and conditions fail the requirement ‘all written terms and conditions will be fair’ as stated in the banking code (p10).
I've had the final brush off letter from Higley - sorry I'm unable to offer you anything more, I've noted your course of action etc, and so its time to file the moneyclaim! I'll read the forum today, and get this done tonight...
wish me luck
any hints or tips that anyone thinks are particularly important?
this is the text of the claim that i'm going to be putting in today:
Claimant has accounts xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxwith Defendant from xth xxxx xxxxx conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of £957.00 taken by Defendant in charges over 4years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.
In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from 17th October 2002 until 31st July 2006 of £75.46 and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £2.27.
The total claimed therefore stands at £1032.46 on 2nd August 2006, plus any interest incurred before the date of judgement or earlier payment.
Just to let you know we are reading your thread but so far you are doing everything right so we have not commented
When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any
doubts.
Thanks guys - much appreciciated. I guess you're so busy at the moment (great stuff! Keep up the good work). I'm trying to put a bit back in by answering some of the simpler questions from newer users (i.e. i think i've got bank charges, where do i start? etc) and will be donating when I win.
Don't want to be a killjoy and I don't see it as anything to be too concerned about. But , just so that you're aware, the daily rate on £957 is £0.21p.
The maximum, on £5000, can only be £1.09
Thanks guys - much appreciciated. I guess you're so busy at the moment (great stuff! Keep up the good work). I'm trying to put a bit back in by answering some of the simpler questions from newer users (i.e. i think i've got bank charges, where do i start? etc) and will be donating when I win.
Cheers
Pl
Thanks this really helps please do not answer them where they have hi-jacked other peoples threads though , just point them to starting there own thread where their questions will be answered
When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any
doubts.
Yes, ****,i've been thinking about this. I think I must have downloaded a dodgy spreadsheet somewhere. The actual amount i'm claiming is £1152 as it has ended up. The actual difference is small I guess, and Natwest will probably want a Breakdown of charges so I'm hoping it will be ok. Thanks for pointing it out thoiugh.
Pl
Originally Posted by Michael Browne
Don't want to be a killjoy and I don't see it as anything to be too concerned about. But , just so that you're aware, the daily rate on £957 is £0.21p.
The maximum, on £5000, can only be £1.09
Ok they've acknowledged the claim (08/08/06). Not sure exactly what this means (beyond the obvious) so am being a 'good boy' and am off to read the forums... wish me luck!
All that means is they now have 28 days instead of 14. They will probably send you a letter via their solicitors now making you an offer or maybe the full amount. Won't be long until payday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really pleased for you x
Lisa x
NatWest: MCOL 16/08/2006 AQ's - copy received from Cobbets 07/10/06 offer received: 14/10/06 FULL AMOUNT RECEIVED TODAY (1st Nov)
Citicards: LBA sent 05/10/06
Baclaycard: MCOL 07/09/06 Defence filed on deadline
Claims settled in full are:
Sainsburys Bank
Mint (RBOS)
Style store card (RBOS)
Natwest Mastercard
Marbles (HFC)
HSBC
MBNA
Plutos vs. Natwest **WON**
today. If you don't do this, then they'll fob you off by saying that statements over 3 years require a special process that is being 'changed' at the moment so they don't know how long it will take. It is quite obvious that they are doing this to put people off.
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Should I claim now the cases have been passed to the mercantile court
Originally Posted by natweststaffmember
