Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Check registration with the Royal Courts of Justice
The bill of sale must be filed with the court within seven days of execution, the bill will also lapse unless it is re-registered after five years. As registration is complex and cumbersome many lenders do not bother doing it.
· Make a written application (no internet service) with a £5 fee (obviously best if recorded/special/registered delivery)
· Provide the name and address of themselves and the other party
· It is likely that they will receive a response within a couple of days.
· The address is Judgement and Orders Section, Room E15, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
If it is, we can check the validity of the agreement; if you can scan it up and post it on here (removing personal items such as name/address etc) we will be able to take a look for you
Hi
I am totally new to the site, so firstly a big hello to all
Ok, so here's the story. My partner left me, and I had really bad credit so I took out a loan with LBL (silly I know) Anyway, in December 2007 my car was clamped at 5am in the morning by Anglia, luckily for me, my dad paid the £1800 (which I have had to pay back) but now I am struggling again and have received another final demand.
I have also just changed address and informed LBL, who said they will send out my log book so I can amend the details and then I have to send back to them.
The question I now have, is will the original bill of sale be valid as the Logbook details are now different? Does this mean I can sell the car and arrange to pay LBL their money back at a rate that I can afford? The current payments of £90 a week are crippling me.
Any advice greatfully appreciated.
Thanks
Hi Galaxy2135, I'd suggest settingup your own thread with this one, rather than asking the question in somebody else's. Somebody will be along soon, I'm sure, who can give you an answer
Hi, can anyone tell me what happens if I have a log book loan on my £4000 car, Then my car breaksdown costing, say, £2500 to repair & I stop paying the loan? Will they take my car then cancel the loan?
No they will take the car, sell it on for next to nothing (sometimes at auction, sometimes to their mates to sell on when instructed) and then pursue you for thousands more.
Unless of course you strike the first legal blow!
Check registration with the Royal Courts of Justice
The bill of sale must be filed with the court within seven days of execution, the bill will also lapse unless it is re-registered after five years. As registration is complex and cumbersome many lenders do not bother doing it.
· Make a written application (no internet service) with a £5 fee (obviously best if recorded/special/registered delivery)
· Provide the name and address of themselves and the other party
· It is likely that they will receive a response within a couple of days.
· The address is Judgement and Orders Section, Room E15, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
If it is, we can check the validity of the agreement; if you can scan it up and post it on here (removing personal items such as name/address etc) we will be able to take a look for you
DOES THE BILL OF SALE NEED TO BE SEALED BY THE COURT WITHIN 7 DAYS OF THE DATE OF CREDIT AGREEMENT???
yes not working days-clear days. Hint you need the check the stamp on the bill. Remember, that if the bill is Void-LBL will clamp/take the car anyway-they are a law to themselves- well its not LBL-they use a third party AGENTS not Baliffs
1) Its witnessed by a clerk of the car company.
2) Agreement is dated 20th April 2007
3) BOS is 20th April 2007
4) Sword affidavit by clerk of garage 25th April 2007
5) Sealed by Royal Court of Justice 3rd May 2007 (it has a seal by the Supreme Court dated 3rd May 2007)
Is this bill of sale enforceable?, bearing in mind that the agreement was paid off in full by the claim in bankruptcy???
I still have the car and there is one months arrears.
I have been served a default notice, still have time to remedy it.
BOS is Void-8 Days, now as the BoS is void you need to get it stated as such via the court. Now the CCA that is with it is still enforcable, you can fight that, but they SHOULD have a court order to take the car, but don't need one if you have paid less than a THIRD back.
Get the BoS Void-copy it, and get a letter (reg) off to LBL and tell them. Covering your backside-tell them that the account is in disrepute and they cannot take the car without a court order (unless you have paid less that a third). Get this you will have a fight on your hands.
Also it might be an idea to SAR them-you never know what might appear...
How do I apply to the court that the Bill of Sale is null and void?
I have already written to them stating that the owe be over 5k in overpayments, the bill of sale is void, and that the credit agreement was claimed in bankruptcy.
Anyone seeking to get a Declaration from the Courts for BOS's that they believe to be unenforceable must notify the lender of your intention to take the matter to court before you take action against them. A letter giving them 14 days notice is all you need to do. Head your Letter 'Notice of Intended Court Action' give your reasons formally and in keeping with the Law. It would appear they tend to ignore letters that are not 'direct'.
When you apply to court - just use an ordinary general claim form.
Your request on the claim form will be for a 'Declaration that the bill of sale is void for want of registration'.
Attach your proof and wait for the court date.
Your proof ideally must be:
a) The 'registered' Bill of Sale with the affidavit etc
b) A copy of a letter from the HCJ that confirms that no PF182 document exists
c) copy of the Notice of Intent letter
Other's may advise differently....
If you have paid more than a third under any credit agreement for a car -the lender is not entitled to recover the vehicle without a court order - both the CCA 1974 supports this fact and the BOS ACT 1882 at Section 7a refers you to the CCA 1974 for total clarification.
In your case if they are fool enough to take your car once you notify them of intended court action - they will end up having to repay you for the car as well!!
If they do take the car whilst proceedings ensue - simply notify the court and apply to recover the costs of the vehicle alongside the declaration.
Trading Standards have advised me that all agreements that are for sums over £30 are conditional sale agreements and are governed by the CCA 1974/2006 and therefore like trooper says - where you have paid more than a third - and they have unlawfully taken action to seize your vehicle - the law is that you will be entitled to recover the monies paid under the Agreement.
Oh let me quickly say - even if you have paid less than a third under the Agreement - the Bill of Sale itself at section 7a refers the lender to the CCA which guides the lender that they must have served a valid default notice etc and gained a court order - so there is no way they can defer from getting a court order first...
1) Its witnessed by a clerk of the car company.
2) Agreement is dated 20th April 2007
3) BOS is 20th April 2007
4) Sword affidavit by clerk of garage 25th April 2007
5) Sealed by Royal Court of Justice 3rd May 2007 (it has a seal by the Supreme Court dated 3rd May 2007)
Is this bill of sale enforceable?, bearing in mind that the agreement was paid off in full by the claim in bankruptcy??? WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE CREDIT AGREEMENT WAS IN BANKRUPTCY AND SMALL DIVIDEND PAID OUT, HENCE AGREEMENT ENDED AT THIS TIME?
I still have the car and there is one months arrears.
I have been served a default notice, still have time to remedy it.
Please can someone help?
Any suggestions about the above? as there is no credit agreement and the Bill of Sale is sealed on the 8th Day should I still apply to the court for a declaration?
Perhaps I need to see a Barrister????
PS. I HAVE PAID OVER A THIRD AND ONLY HAVE 12 MONTHS TO GO. I also continued paying after a claim was made in Bankrupty, hence effectively overpaying for over 3 years!!!
Any suggestions about the above? as there is no credit agreement and the Bill of Sale is sealed on the 8th Day should I still apply to the court for a declaration?
Perhaps I need to see a Barrister????
PS. I HAVE PAID OVER A THIRD AND ONLY HAVE 12 MONTHS TO GO. I also continued paying after a claim was made in Bankrupty, hence effectively overpaying for over 3 years!!!
Hi Emanevs
who is bankrupt? who are you paying, is it LBL or a thirdparty like a DCA?
Your first move is to get the BOS void. As the CCA is tied to the BOS if the BoS is invalid then they have to rely on the CCA (usally the CCA is done the same as the BoS-hurried and mistakes are made) Even so, the Law is clear with Credit agreements.
If I was you I would seek legal council and get a clear picture of what lies ahead.
should I get the barrister or should I just make a court application for a declaration.
Problem is that I have effectively "overpaid". What I mean by this is that:
1) The bill of sale is without doubt null and void - 8 days.
2) The credit agreement ended in Bankruptcy, as they made a claim in my Bankruptcy nearly three years ago and were paid out a dividend (not full amount though)
3) I have been paying this firm for nearly three years, when clearly I didnt need to beacuse the credit agreement ended in BR.
I also want to declare the Bill of Sale null and void, and reclaim over £5000 in overpaying them.
should I get the barrister or should I just make a court application for a declaration.
Problem is that I have effectively "overpaid". What I mean by this is that:
1) The bill of sale is without doubt null and void - 8 days.
2) The credit agreement ended in Bankruptcy, as they made a claim in my Bankruptcy nearly three years ago and were paid out a dividend (not full amount though)
3) I have been paying this firm for nearly three years, when clearly I didnt need to beacuse the credit agreement ended in BR.
I also want to declare the Bill of Sale null and void, and reclaim over £5000 in overpaying them.
Any thoughts???
Ahhh-now i get you, so in effect they have been paid twice... You will need legal advice, you need to speak to a sol, as this it could be very expensive.
If it was me, the first thing would be the Subject access request for all you details-this can take 40 days, but they must give you a copy of everthing they hold on you. Even phone call transcripts.. Do it by Reg letter and don't let it go.
Reply to the default letter-express that you think that you have overpaid-reg the letter to-They have to sign for them and cannot say they have not recieved it.
Look for a sol that deals with consumer law.
HIDE THE CAR, i know they don't play by the rules-if they come a knocking ask them to leave-tell them (there are agents not baliffs) that they are not welcome and you consider it harrasment (again you are protected by law) RECORD THEM if you can. (i wished i did that when they pushed my wife over, long story).
Now i will state that they WILL phone write and be a real pain, threat...allsorts..if you can record them. (it all helps if you go to court)
Now read the posts and do some research-the more you understand the better position you will be in.. Look up CCA 1974 (plus updates) and the BOS act 1878 and amendments-plus backrupcy law-the more you research the better.
logbook loans - bill of sale
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Originally Posted by sequenci
