Thread: help with welcome finance

Originally Posted by sofiya

hi i have lots of questions in regwrads to welcome finance and there dodgy dealings!!
Just a bit of background i took out a loan with WF in march 2006 for approx £20.000, for the past few months i have had great difficulty keeping up with repayments and thay have really been on my case, letters, telephone calls coming to my house they were even ringiong me at work! anyway i stumbled accross this site and really want to take on WF and get back a missold single payment ppi, and charges listed as "fees".
first of all i requested my statements and shock horror on the same day i took the laon out it reads "insurance premiunms advanced" for the amt of £3,470.80!!!, so i want to reclaim this whopping ppi premium with interest so that it will reduce the loan and therefore my repayments. Please inform us of the Breakdown of this loan. The loan amount, interest applied, ppi cost, interest applied to ppi, total cost of credit. Interest rate and over how many months/years.

i know it was missold as i am a contractual worker and have a adequte cover for up to a year if i am off sick, they also told me that i had to take out the ppi so i could get the loan. I would like to ask that the APR rate is 17.9% but i really dont know how to calculate how much interest they owe me, really very slow at maths just dont really do figures!!! we can work this out when you post the figures

Secondly on my statements i have alot of debits ad "fees" what i would like to know are thers reclaimable as it is cuming to about £400. After reading thru some posts i understand taht you can only claim "penalty charegs" not the fees tahy add for a telephone call or letter-I do believe you can, its does not cost £15 to sent a letter or telephone some-one i also would not know how to calculate interst on these charges. Need a list of the charges, reason for charge and the interest rate of the loan. This can be put on a spreadsheet to work out the contractual interest from the date they were taken to the date you claim them back.

i bet i have put every 1 to sleep but i have tried to work it out by myself and failed miserably!!!!!!!!!!!!!! would really appreciate a reply

Please reply to these questions and we will try to help.

Originally Posted by sofiya

loan amt= 20,442.33
Insurance : Lifecare £180
PPI £3296.59
Total = £3476.59
Total cost of credit= £40543.15 (which consisits of £235 acceptance fee & £40,308.15 Int chg) is this correct or was it £4,308.14 interest charged
Term = 180 months, 15 yrs

now in terms of the int applied i am slighty confused :? as on my greement there are 2 rates 1) APR (variable) 17.70%
2) Rate of int per annum 17.5%
the 1st rate of 17.70 is is displayed just under the monthly payment and the no of monthly payments(180m)
the 2nd rate is displayed just under the acceptance fee & the interest charged. i think its 17.7

moving on:-

i have all my statements frm WF & the chgs r under 'transaction type' as FEES made up of £20 & £5.00 chgs the int rate is 17.7%

hope this answs evrything

You are saying that the loan amount they gave to was £20,442.38 and the total charge for credit was £40,543.15. Is this correct.

If so they charged you £20,100.82, for ppi, interest and acceptance fee

Sofia, can you post a copy of your agreement here?

Darling, what i meant was can you scan your agreement and post it here?

Originally Posted by sofiya

ok then have i confused everybody?;

so 1st there is a section which reads:

KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION

TOTAL AMT OF CREDIT (B+C) £23918.92 A Amt of monthly pymet 358.12
Amt of cr 4 cash adv £20442.33 B No of monthly pymts 180
Amt of credit 4 ins £3476.59 C the 1st to be paid 1 mnth after the date of this agreement then on the same date evry mnth after that (2payment date) APR variable 17.70%

OTHER FINANCIAL INFORMATION
Insurances lifecare 24 cash price £180
PPI £3296.59
Total cash price £3476.59

Total charge 4 cr
consisting of (M+N+O) £40534.15 = L
acceptance fee £235=M
mortgage indemity fee £0 = N
interest chg £40,308.15 = O

i think thios is evrything it then goes on to talk bout KEY INFORMATION about payung the loan off early, and the reates they charge for a returned DD etc...

i hope this helps

hello,

I am just looking at you figures.

The first thing that springs to mind is that the total payable £358.12 X 180months is £64,461.16. Is this correct.

the interest charged was £40,208.15. This would include interest on the cash advancement and the ppi. I do not have the time now, but will have a look at the interest and try to break it down to work out how much interest was applied to the ppi.

yes that is correct clearly says monthly pymnt £358.12 & no of mnths 180.

also the interest charged is £40,308.15

so does this mean that they loan amt was £23,918.92 and then charged me interest @ 17.7%/17.5% 4 the amount of £16,389.23

Originally Posted by sofiya

hi hellhasnofury can i just ask a question?/

when i initially started to look into this what i did is wrote to WF i asked them for "my original file" at the point of sale i asked for details of the initial sale, the terms and conditions at the time of purchase and any subsequent changes.

i did say that they are obliged to give me these details under the Data Protection Act.

BUT; reading a few threads should i have forwarded a S.A.R - (Subject access request), FEEL SLIGHTLY UNSURE

also when they fwd this info they sent me 1) WF loan app 2)fixed-sum loan agreement,30 a legal charge form

should i submit a SAR or do i have enuf doc's 2 start a mis-selling complaint?

feeling v. unsure

Hello Sofiya,

Stop worrying now we will get them.

It looks like you have all off the information that is needed, we just have to work out the interest they applied to the PPI, and I can asure you they will not want to give you that willingly.

Right they sent you the credit agreement that you signed for the loan

Will have a look at the figures later

Originally Posted by sofiya

yes that is correct clearly says monthly pymnt £358.12 & no of mnths 180.

also the interest charged is £40,308.15

so does this mean that they loan amt was £23,918.92 and then charged me interest @ 17.7%/17.5% 4 the amount of £16,389.23

Hello Sofiya,

With the info and figures that you have put up. KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION

TOTAL AMT OF CREDIT (B+C) £23918.92 A Amt of monthly pymet 358.12
Amt of cr 4 cash adv £20442.33 B No of monthly pymts 180
Amt of credit 4 ins £3476.59 C the 1st to be paid 1 mnth after the date of this agreement then on the same date evry mnth after that (2payment date) APR variable 17.70%

OTHER FINANCIAL INFORMATION
Insurances lifecare 24 cash price £180
PPI £3296.59
Total cash price £3476.59

Total charge 4 cr
consisting of (M+N+O) £40534.15 = L
acceptance fee £235=M
mortgage indemity fee £0 = N
Interest chg £40,308.15 = O

i think thios is evrything it then goes on to talk bout KEY INFORMATION about payung the loan off early, and the reates they charge for a returned DD etc...

i hope this helps

The loan amount as in the cash that they gave to you was £20,442.33 and the ppi and lifecare was £3,296.59 total was £23,918.92

The amount that is payable by you every month is £358.12 times 180 months equals the total you will repay them is £23,918.92

.

So £64,461.60 is the total charge for credit, that is the amount you are going to pay them back for borrowing £23,918.92. This is the amount they gave you and the cost of the ppi and lifecare.

So the total over and above this amount that they charged you in interest was £40,308.15 plus £23,918.92 equals £64,461.60

Originally Posted by sofiya

hi hellhasnofury;

i have read through & think that i understand the figures, but how do i actually calculate what amt in interest i have paid on the PPI & lifecare?? Well, looking at these figures, neither can I.

i have absolutely no idea on how to calculate this now, also feel quite stupid as i may be asking a really easy question but i am non the wiser

Maybe write to them and ask specifically for a Breakdown of the interest they applied to the loan. Me thinks they will be reluctant to do this. I have a sneaky suspicion that they have calculated the ppi on a monthly basis and multipied it by the no of months.

Please don't feel stupid, they do it in a way that you are not mean't to understand and do not question.

Where you aware that they were making over £40,000 in profit from you. No you probably were desperate for the money and they quoted a figure that you felt you could afford each month and you signed it.

Originally Posted by sofiya

hiya;

i would just like to say thank you for giving it a bash!!

what i am going to do now is take ur advise.

ok so now i have a plan8-)

1) i will write to them and ask them what the amount of interest i have paid 4 the PPI over the past 2 years
2) should i give them 14 days to release this info or shud it be the 40days?? i think 14 will do
3) the i will senf them a lba(is that right letter b4 action???) & give them another 14 days and if not ui will say i will issue a smalls claim court "ordering them to release the requested info" like when a bank fails to fwd ur DSAr req ( i've read on a thread smewhere that u can threaten & then take them 2 court if they dont release ur personal info??)

does this sound like a plan of action or what??? (feeling brave now)

Hell Sofiya,

That does now sound like a postive plan of action.

Apart from (sorry if I sound rude, do not intend to)

You write and ask them for the total amount of interest, with a Breakdown for the whole god damn loan, not just for the last two years.

Did you send them a Subject access request????

If you have not, then you must do so asap

Let me know because I will help you with the letter

If you have and they have not sent you this info and the 40days have past, they have breached the law and have failed to disclose this information to you.

Let take time and get this right. We are not in a race,

Post up what you have done, so we know what you need to do.

hiya hellhasnofury:

anyway in terms of what i have done with WF, i requested a copy of my statements about a month or so ago , when i took a closer look at the staements i noticed that the loan at the beginning was approx 22K but the catual loan was approx £25 i noticed in under the description coulum "insurance premium advanced" 4 the amt of £3,705.80, anyway i started looking in2 misselling of ppi's and felt that as i was told that i needed to take out the ppi 4 the loan i was mis sold also i am a contractual worker so i am fully covered, so i sent them a letter;

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am writing to inform you that i am formally complaining about the sale of payment protection sold by your comapny.

As this ppi was mis-sold i have suffered a financial loss as i was told to take out the ppi in order to receive the loan amount of £20,442.33. At the point of sale i was (and still am) a contractual worker therefore i have adequate cover with my employer. I am now looking to recover the single payment premium of £3,476.59 along with the interest at the rate of 17.9%.

I am now informally instructing you to cancel the Life Care 24 and the payment protection immediantly.

In order for me to pursue this mis-selling complaint i will require the original file yur organization holds in respect of the above mentioned account. Please ensure you include details of the initial sale, terms and conditions at the time of teh purchase and any subsequent changes. Failure to provide thsi information within 40 days under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in me reporting you to the Information Commisioner for review.

I must remind you of your obligation under the terms and conditions you entered into when the account opened. It is an implied term of the contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

FSA guidelines clearly state although selling of a policy does not breach guidelines: a borrower should not be refused a loan if they choose not to buy a insurance policy.

Failure to uphold this complaint and deal in a fair and reasonable manner will result in me esculating the matter to the Finance and Leasing Association and to the Financial Ombudsman Service for review. If you fail to repay the full premuim plus interest i will issue a claim under teh smalls claim court, however i do hope this will not be necessary.

I look forward to receiving the information by 26th of October 2007.

Yours Sincerly

this was sent on 10/09 rec 11/09 RESP:

With reference to your letter dated 10/09 please find enclosed the following documents for your legally binding Secured Laon Credit Agreement.

Application from
Legal Agreement
Demands ANd needs insurance statement
Finance quote (office copy)
Customers wage slip
Completion letter

As you will see from the enclosed documentation, WFS have fully adhered to the guidelines set out by the FSA in the ay that we have fully documneted, (and provided customer with documents,) on several occasions explaining that the insurance are optional and that if you were not happy with any part of the deal you were advised to contact our office immediantly to discuss the matter further (LIE)

May i point out that you signed for the optional insurance on 3 sepearte occasions when you took out the loan, and received a completion letter shortly after the deal was paid out again explaining the insurance which you purchased along with the loan itself, at this point you would have alos received leaflets expalining the benefits, clauses and cancellation processes for all of teh purchased insurances.

I am prepared to cancel the PPI with immediate effecr, however you will only receive a part rebate as you have benefitted from the insurance for 18 months, this will be deducted from your balance, butwill not reduce the full contractual monthly payments. A full cancellation can only take place within the first 30 days of the agreement.

With regards to teh Lifecare24 policy, this is non refundable insurance policy. The leaflet which you received shortly after the loan was completed would have stated taht if you were not happy with this policy then you should cancel the policy within 30 days for a full refund.

I hope this satusfies your requirement and would request taht you write back to me confirming that the matter of "mis-selling" has now been closed.

Yours Sincerly

Branch Manager

now the problem is i really cannot remeber then forwarding any leaflets in terms of the policy, i do not even hold any policy documents.

so this is how far i have cum 2 with WF they r waiting 4 me 2 respond & he even called me 2 confirm that i would be dropping the compalint, then on Friday i got a call asking me if i would like to re-finace this loan with another on WF loans but with a lowerint rate!!! culdnt beleive my ears.

also i have not forwarded a SAR

On another subject in terms of these "fees" that they have been charging me am i right in thinking i can recalim these like bank charges, so would i list these charges and send a preliminary letter asking for a reund, if no reply send them a lba and then if no reply issue court proceedin
i anticipate your reply!