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i parked in the disabled bay in a free retail carpark which i am entitled to do so as i am registered disabled. as i was leaving my car i asked my 12year old daughter to display my blue badge. i returned to my car 4 mins later to find CMS UK LTD had issued a ticket. the traffic warden had questioned my daughter about my badge as she had unwittingly placed it the wrong way but the clock was correct. on return i found a distressed daughter and a parking ticket. unfortunately i then became aware that my badge had expired by one month i am still entitled to a blue badge as i recieve the full mobility component of DLA. i rectified this immidiately by phone and am awaiting my new badge. the appeals process, on the parking charge, states that i must include the £50 charge with any correspondence otherwise further costs will be incurred. i wish to get this matter sorted without paying the £50 and incurring additional costs what is my best course of action?
Do not pay. You could try reasoning with them, and sending proof of your entitlement to use disabled spaces. They may or may not listen. But ultimately even if they will not cancel it, it is unenforceable and you needn't trouble yourself over it as these private parking tickets rely almost 100% on bluff and lies.
Janon .. once again bad advice is being given !!!
You need to check the terms and conditions of the carpark, if it states disabled badges must be shown then they could argue the ticket was issued lawfully and correctly - the fact it was a month out of date is another factor (but they arent to know that if it wasnt on display).
Private tickets ARE enforceable if issued correctly and the signage is correct - despite what people on here say - some companies choose not to take it all the way due to costs and other factors, but just bear in mind they can and some do!
Your best way is to appeal stating the badge was on display, your daughter was in the vehicle etc.. so may of placed it upside down but it was clear you had one ..
I suspect they will not pursue this on a pure common sense level.
Sorry .. also forgot to add ... the advice about not paying is correct.
If you are appealing, why would you send in money as an indication you agree to the charge !!!
It is outrageous they ask you to pay for them to consider an appeal ... write in, even the BPA (British parking association) to which they are members and agree to abide by their code of conduct state charges should be put on hold whilst appeal is being processed and payment should not be sent whilst an appeal is being considered.
Perky88 - are you referring to my post 2 above as being 'bad advice'?
I have no difficulty with an alternative view, providing you are prepared to provide a reasoned argument to support your view and cogently rebut the other persons views.
Notwithstanding, I would be interested in your rationale relating to how a private parking company can charge a penalty for breach of contract and how this can be reconciled with your statement that a private parking ticket is enforceable in law.
If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.
A parking charge, if the signage is correctly worded and the notices donot refer to penalty (ie. they refer to a parking charge of £xx.xx payable within xx days if you donot comply with xx) and then he parking charge is applied, and is therefore totally enforceable.
Parking Companies, if they do it right, will then enforce the contractual amount stated and not seek to collect penalty or damages for loss of earnings/revenue .. if they argue this point a valid argument to show a loss of profit/earnings could be submitted.
But if it states a parking charge of xx.xx is payable by parking here without a permit, you get the charge .. then it is totally enforcable (not withstanding any defences that may be brought into play such as prove I was the driver, inadequate signage etc.....)
In the same way as a sign stating permits holders only or vehicle clamped and pay £50 to release .. you dont have a permit, a clamp is put on and then to release £50 ... same principle.
The main comment was they are unenforceable .. and this is quite incorrect as they are totally enforcable IF issued and processed correctly.
You need to check the terms and conditions of the carpark, if it states disabled badges must be shown then they could argue the ticket was issued lawfully and correctly - the fact it was a month out of date is another factor (but they arent to know that if it wasnt on display).
Since the official blue badges have no legal validity outwith the purpose of issue (ie they are meaningless for private parking) the only thing that matters IF a contract is believed to have been formed is the contract terms.
If the signs say a disabled badge must be displayed, then any disabled badge will do - be it expired, somebody else's or even home-made.
If I were to severely twist my ankle. Then for private parking, all I would need is a piece of paper in the windscreen stating that I am temporarily disabled - unless the signs said that a current Council-issued badge was required. Neither the PA nor the PPC are medically qualified to question my assertion that I am disabled for the purposes of their contract.
This is just an example of the many problems in trying to enforce a contract when depending on signage.
To most people they understand and respect that parking in a disabled bay should be for people with a valid blue badge - although I accept they have no legal validity (as I am constantly telling people who appeal saying they can park anywhere because they have one ... but thats another thing).
Although I havent, I would presume it would be easy for a parking company to argue a note in a window saying "I had twisted my ankle" and then was issued a ticket as not displaying a disabled badge was valid.
Generally people who park in disabled bays (private or not) and then walk out of the car with no disability or badge on display should get NO sympathy as the person who does need the extra space in the bay because of disability cannot use it ...
BUT the poster here DID have a badge, but it was upside down and they were parked in a disabled bay ... so the ticket should be cancelled and even if they refuse to .. I suspect no judge would find in their favour .. and it wouldnt get that far anyway
Blue badges normally allow the holder to park in public places for free where able bodied motorists would have to pay for their parking or not be allowed to park there at all. So how can a private company, who manage a free car park, start issuing penalties to someone who has gained no advantage, other than to use a disabled bay, other other motorists who have parked for free?
As for the person who walks away from a car perfectly well when displaying a blue badge, I do that quite often. My mum on the other hand needs a wheelchair and it is her badge which I use when she is in the car with me. The blue badge relates to the person, not the vehicle.
Rob, I think you and most other people knew what I meant without (once again) trying to be argumentative - For the avoidance of doubt I will explain in simple terms ... I was referring to a person pulling up into a space and just using a disabled badge because one is in the car (ie. could belong to his/her mom, they are not in the car but they are the type of person who cant be bothered to look for spaces and feel they can park anywhere ...)
Under the DDA private car park owners are encouraged to offer spaces allocated to disabled persons, and private land owners try and accomodate this wherever possible ... they restrict the use of the space for PEOPLE SHOWING A VALID DISABLED BADGE ... I think this is very reasonable and any person abusing it will be contravening the terms of the carpark and therefore pay a parking charge.
Please Please Please try and understand I am talking about parking charges and not penalties ...
Anyway Rob, you are good at hijacking threads so lets leave this there .. The OP asked a question and he/she received an answer about how to appeal and the fact it will most probarly be upheld.
I would suggest if you wish discuss why landowners should allow allow disabled spaces .. you start a new thread with that as the subject and keep threads to the original subect ...
Hope this is much clearer for you now, as I appreciate sometimes you need a little help in clarification
How would you define a 'penalty'? I would define it as a fixed charge for contravening a contract, set at a level that penalises the consumer as opposed to being a reasonable fee for the service received. £50/£80/£100 or whatever is clearly not a standard price for parking. You also use the word 'contravene' which is not a normal part of forming a contract that does not involve a penalty.
This idea of calling an obvious penalty by a different name isn't exactly new: after all this is primarily a website about bank penalties.
Rob, I think you and most other people knew what I meant without (once again) trying to be argumentative - For the avoidance of doubt I will explain in simple terms ... I was referring to a person pulling up into a space and just using a disabled badge because one is in the car (ie. could belong to his/her mom, they are not in the car but they are the type of person who cant be bothered to look for spaces and feel they can park anywhere ...)
But if the sign merely says that a disabled badge must be displayed, then this condition would be fulfilled by the display of any badge as I listed above.
No PA is likely to have either the medical or contractual law knowledge to contradict that
Under the DDA private car park owners are encouraged to offer spaces allocated to disabled persons, and private land owners try and accomodate this wherever possible ...
For retail parks of any size, there is no encouragement - it is a planning condition
they restrict the use of the space for PEOPLE SHOWING A VALID DISABLED BADGE ... I think this is very reasonable and any person abusing it will be contravening the terms of the carpark and therefore pay a parking charge.
You have changed the wording from my example by adding VALID. However, valid in what sense and to whom? Without explicit contract definitions/terms any charge/penalty or whatever else you want to call it is not justifiable
It is outrageous they ask you to pay for them to consider an appeal ... write in, even the BPA (British parking association) to which they are members and agree to abide by their code of conduct state charges should be put on hold whilst appeal is being processed and payment should not be sent whilst an appeal is being considered.
Good idea. It would be interesting to see what stance they take and how authoritative they can be when a member steps out of line in such a prima facie way (Hint: I won't be holding my breath)
Anyway Rob, you are good at hijacking threads so lets leave this there .. The OP asked a question and he/she received an answer about how to appeal and the fact it will most probarly be upheld.
I would suggest if you wish discuss why landowners should allow allow disabled spaces .. you start a new thread with that as the subject and keep threads to the original subect ...
Hope this is much clearer for you now, as I appreciate sometimes you need a little help in clarification
Of course, we always need clarification from such an unbiased source as you Perky
As for hijacking the thread, I suggest you look up what a thread hijack actually is before you go into lecture mode about it.
Just out of interest, we still have no idea what the contravention was! Non display of Disabled Badge, parking in a bay without a valid badge or even parking inappropriately....? Until the reason for the ticket issuance is known, any argument in defence would be academic!
You should not pay. Any reply should be on the basis of what contract do you feel I have entered with the landowner? You have not entered into a contract can clearly you are entitled to park in this disabled bay without fear of any invoice being sent by this company.
By the way Perky88 comments on contracts are wrong.
Hi All
I am finding this tread very useful, having come across from the Bank Charges section after beating Lloyds TSB for £3500 recently, I now have a new challenge, a charge certicate from UKPC for £80, however I am getting a little confused by all this reference to Parking Charges by Perky88, In my now experienced position, l would consider a parking charge a sum which is paid for the pleasure of using that facility, not a charge for a contravention/breach of contract. These Parking Charges are nothing less than exhorbitant Penalty Charges, being Cloaked as other charges, exactly the same as the banks have been doing for years, and have now got bitten on the bum for.
,
I cant comment on bank charges as I have never paid any ... but as for your comment "l would consider a parking charge a sum which is paid for the pleasure of using that facility,".
The landowner is stating you can use the land for a parking charge of £60/£80 or whatever for a period of 24hrs.
I know of at least 3 carparks in Central London that will cost you more than £60 for 24hrs ... and the NCP short Stay at a small airport like Bham Airport charges £1 for the first 20mins and £3 for every 20mins afterwards.
private car park fine
. unfortunately i then became aware that my badge had expired by one month i am still entitled to a blue badge as i recieve the full mobility component of DLA. i rectified this immidiately by phone and am awaiting my new badge. the appeals process, on the parking charge
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Originally Posted by perky88
