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Thread: POC for Mint CC

  1. #1
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    mr elmo Novitiate

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    Default POC for Mint CC

    Just about to take mint to court now, but confused over what POCicon to use for credit cards, is the one in the templates libary enough, if I change the referenced to bank accounts to credit cards etc, or is there one for CC that I am being blind and just cant see?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Hi mr elmo!

    There's a really good POCicon here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1075176 that can be adapted to use for your credit card.

    Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's A-Z Guide



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    I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    cheers

    IT seams that alot of the templates seam to be geared towards bank charges rather than credit card charges, maybe some credit card templates could be added (i.e there is a lbaicon for CC but no pre-lim!)


  4. #4
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    where's this link lbaicon for Credit cards Mr Elmo?? I have been using banks is thsi ok??

    BJ




  5. #5
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    here is the lbaicon for credit cards -http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...RD-letter.html

    Just finished off a long ish stint at work and going to goto court today to submit the N1. Going to use those POCicon's and just change for credit cards etc

    Am i right in thinking I need to take 2 copied of the N1 form, as well as 2 copies of the schedule of charges, and 2 copies of the chages showing the 8% intrest (I used hte advanced credit card spread sheet)


  6. #6
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Elmo,

    Thanks for that.

    Yep, you can take two copies of everything, one for the court and one for them to send to Defendant, however, I took three so I could get a court stamped copy for my records.


    Post up your POCicon when you've finished I'd like to see that, I have three waiting to go at mo.

    regards

    BJ




  7. #7
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    these are the POCicon's im going to be using

    PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

    1. The Claimant had an account number xxxxxxxxxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around xxxxx.

    2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interesticon on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

    3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

    4. The Claimant contends that:

    a) The charges debited to the Account were punitive in nature; were not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and were not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrichedicon the Defendant which exercised the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

    b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levyicon such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

    i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

    ii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

    5. The defendant has, in addition, levied interest on these charges at the rate of 14.88%.

    6. The Claimant avers that, by this action, the Defendant has sought to enrich itself by the consequences of unlawful action, specifically, unlawful penalty charges as detailed above and applied in terrorem.


    7. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

    a) the return of £x in charges and interest of £x thereon debited to the Claimant’s account and listed in the attached schedule

    b) Court costs;

    c) Interest under section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.


    I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true
    so off to print out N1 *3, schedule of charges *3, schedule of chages page for the 8% intrest *3

    using the southend of sea address on the N1 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1079050


  8. #8
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Elmo,

    are you not claiming CI, I thought this was
    fairly easy to argue on CC's. As that is what they do to you.

    You could give the court the choice, (I think only if you have claimed form beginning??) anyone??

    BJ


  9. #9
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    I chose against CI in the end, though I was considering it, but I like to keep things simple.

    From what I understand you need to have asked for CI since the begining of the claim, so I wouldn't be able to bring it in now


  10. #10
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    I'll let you know how i go with mine with CI.

    BJ


  11. #11
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Slight update - Claim was served on the 20'th Sept, they responded saying they would defend (by corbetts)

    Today recieve letter dated 16'th offering me just over 1/2 my claim, of course Im rejecting it using rejection letter no 6 on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ng-offers.html Do I include the 8% sat interesticon in the claim amount or just state claim and the court fees?

    In addition with all the strike action by royal mail recently is it worth me phoning them up to to let them know, or deliver a copy of a letter to my local corbetts office by hand (even though a different office is dealing with the claim)

    Many Thanks

    Elmo


  12. #12
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    When you filed your claim at court, did you include the 8% interesticon on your claim form? You should be claiming for the penalty charges, 8% interest plus court fees at this stage.

    I'd be inclined to send your communication by post (registered or special delivery as usual) but to fax a copy (if possible) to the Cobbetts office dealing with your claim as well. Or you could always email the person at Cobbetts who is dealing with your claim and attach a copy of what you're sending them.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Hi

    I claimed for the charges, interesticon charged as a result of charges, 8% interest + court fees. I asked as the offer rejection letters don't appear to mention the 8% interest.

    Going to just post it, I did think I would be doing them a favor keeping them updated, but then I clicked that they only have 2 days to get a defense in, which I have not seen anything of yet!

    So back to the question, in the rejection letter do I include the 8% intrest and add it in to the other amounts of money on that line?

    Thanks


  14. #14
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Defence received in todays post - guess id best type it all in here. will get typing

    Am i correct in thinking that its now waiting for a court date (or them offing me the full amount to save on their costs )


  15. #15
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Sorry mr.elmo - I logged off quite early last night! With regards to the rejection letter, just alter one of the CAGicon rejection letters to include something along the lines of "as you may be aware, I recently filed a claim at xxxx county courticon to recover the charges applied to my credit card account. Therefore, the total amount I am now claiming is £xxxxx, which now includes additional interesticon at a rate of xxx". (Just a thought though, but if you've claimed the contractual rate of interest you don't claim 8% on top of this as well.)

    Now that you've received the defence, basically it's a waiting game - they'll either offer you the full amount (plus interest of course) or they'll wait until shortly before the court date to pay up!


  16. #16
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Covering letter
    We are instructed on behalf of the above named.
    We enclose by way of service the Defendant's defence.
    We confirm that we have filed a copy of the same with the court.
    Yours Faithfully

    Cobbetts LLP
    and the defence
    In the blah blah county courticon
    between
    Mr Elmo claiment
    -and-
    Mint Credit Cards

    Defence

    1. This defence is filed and served without prejudiceicon to the defendant's case that the particulars of claim do not disclose resaonable grounds fo bringing a clam against the defendant to recover the bank charges (and interesticon thereon) referred to in the particulars of claim or any other sum(s). In the even tthat the claim is not properly particularized then the defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgment in respect of the same.

    2. On allocation the defendant invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the court to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the claimant the opportunity to properly particularize the claim.

    3. no admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the claiaments bank account.

    4. in relation to the allegation that the bank charges amount to an unenforceable penalty the defendant pleads as follows:

    4.1 in order for the claimant to sustain a claim that the charges debited by the defendant are in the nature of a penalty the claiment will need to prove (a) the clause(s) pirsiant to which the charges were applied ;(b) that the charges were applied due to a breach of contract by the claimant; and (c) identifying in each case the particular breach of contract (by reference to appropriate term(s) of the contract) that the charges related to. As presently pleased the claim does not plead these matters and therefore does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim that all or any of the charges referred to in the Particulars of Claim have been applied pursuant to an unenforceable penalty clause.

    4.2 Until such time as the Claimant pleads the matters referred to in paragraph 4.1 above the Defendant is unable to plead to the claim brought against it and therefore (pending the provision of full and proper particulars of the claim) at this stage denies that any charges have been applied to the claimants bank account pursuant to unenforceable penalty clauses.

    5. In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are invalid pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 ("the Regulations").

    5.1 The claimant is required to identify the contractual provision(s) that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the regulations. Until such time as these provisions are identified the defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegation referred to in paragraph 5 above. The defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the claimant identifies the relevant contractual provisions.

    5.2 In relation to the cae of the claimant that the contractual provisions are invalid pursuant to the regulations the defendant pleads as follows

    5.2.1 Schedule 2 to the Regulations is an indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair (emphasis supplied)

    5.2.2 if the claimant is to rely upon paragraph 1(e) of Schedule 2 to the Regulations then the claimant is required to pleas and prove in relation to each bank charge that is sought the matters referred ot in paragraph 5.1 above and all facts and matters relied upon in alleging that the sums paid are disproportionately high

    5.2.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the contractual provisions (what ever they are alleged to be - see paragraph 5.1 above) falls foul of the Regulations and in particular paragraph 1(e) of Schedule 2.

    5.2.4 The defendant is therefore unable (save as appears below) to plead to this allegation beyond denying that any bank charges have been applied pursuant to terms which contravene the Regulations. The Defendant reserves its right to plead further to this allegation once (and if) the particulars referred to in paragraph 5.2.2 above are provided.

    5.2.5 without prejudiceicon to paragraph 5.2.4 it is the case of the Defendant that the Regulations have no application because the charges amount to paying for services provided by the Defendant and the adequacy (or otherwise) of consideration paid under a contract for services is not an issue to be judge by reference to principles of fairness under the regulations.

    6. The claimant's claim for costs not being sufficiently particularized, the Defendant is unable to plead and reserves the right to plead upon further particulars
    .

    7. Save as hereinbefore appears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on the claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

    Statement of truth.........
    (sorry for any typoicon's etc testing my touch typing skills while not looking at the keyboard/screen)

    So while most of it has flown right over my head, I am confused to their point 6 referring to costs, the only cost I am claiming is the court fee!

    And why do they seam to think its for bank charges when its obviously a credit charges case...


  17. #17
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgey06 View Post
    Sorry mr.elmo - I logged off quite early last night! With regards to the rejection letter, just alter one of the CAGicon rejection letters to include something along the lines of "as you may be aware, I recently filed a claim at xxxx county courticon to recover the charges applied to my credit card account. Therefore, the total amount I am now claiming is £xxxxx, which now includes additional interesticon at a rate of xxx". (Just a thought though, but if you've claimed the contractual rate of interest you don't claim 8% on top of this as well.)

    Now that you've received the defence, basically it's a waiting game - they'll either offer you the full amount (plus interest of course) or they'll wait until shortly before the court date to pay up!
    No worries - we all have lives away from the PC!

    Did what you said and modified a letter and sent if off today

    With the court, Do I need to start preparing the court bundle now or is that step a fair bit away (if at all)


  18. #18
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Quote Originally Posted by mr elmo View Post
    Did what you said and modified a letter and sent if off today
    Nice work

    Quote Originally Posted by mr elmo View Post
    With the court, Do I need to start preparing the court bundle now or is that step a fair bit away (if at all)
    No need to start preparing anything at the moment- you've got a bit of breathing space for a little while now. Hopefully, they'll pay up sooner rather than later now that they've realised you're serious about this. But if they do keep this up for a while longer, you've still got quite a lot of time before you need to start preparing the bundle.

    With regards to the defence - sounds like a rather standard 'bank charges' defence (which they seem to 'cut and paste' and use for credit cards as well!) I'd be inclined to see what directions you receive from the court now. You should receive something from them soon (e.g, aqicon) - and they'll let you know if they need you to submit any additional info/clarify the details of your POCicon as well. In the meantime, file their 'defence' in your folder and sit back............. and wait awhile again! :grin:


  19. #19
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Thanks Hedgey06 will update the thread if and when I get any more updates


  20. #20
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    Default Re: POC for Mint CC

    Thanks - my main worry is more that the court writes to me to let me know of a date only for the letter to get lost in the post etc - do the courts mind phone callsicon asking them for a status on a case, or do they see them more as an annoyance?



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