Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder rontocknell Novitiate

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    Default I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    I've often wondered what would happen if bank customers handed over their fivers (and higher denomination banknotes) and demanded that the bank fulfil the promise on every banknote, ie; the promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of (whatever) pounds. The word "pound" in terms of money refers to the weight 240 silver pennies. Banknotes are not actually money but a promisary note on behalf of the Bank of England. Banknotes were issued to enable merchants to exchange a convenient representation of actual sterling (ie; high grade) silver for goods or services. The banknotes could then be presented to any bank which, by law, was obliged to pay the bearer the banknote's value in sterling silver which did not necessarily have to be in the form of 240 silver pennies per pound but did have to be the equivalent weight in sterling silver.

    Prior to 1528, the "pound" referred to the Tower Pound (equal to 5,400 grains and worth about £78.75 in the current market value of silver). In 1528, the standard was changed to the Troy Pound, which is a little heavier and valued in today's market at around £84.

    Now, despite the fluctuations in the value of the pound as a unit of currency, I know of no law passed that voids the promise that is still printed on banknotes today. The word "pounds" still carry the same historical meaning as far as I have been able to ascertain.

    Maybe there is a law that releives the banks of their obligation to hand over £420 worth of silver when I present my fiver and demand the bank fulfils the promise on the banknote. If anybody knows more about this, I'd be grateful for the info as I'm seriously thinking of doing this and want to be well-armed with information before attempting to screw the banks like they've been screwing us for so long.

    Any ideas?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by rontocknell View Post
    I've often wondered what would happen if bank customers handed over their fivers (and higher denomination banknotes) and demanded that the bank fulfil the promise on every banknote, ie; the promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of (whatever) pounds. The word "pound" in terms of money refers to the weight 240 silver pennies. Banknotes are not actually money but a promisary note on behalf of the Bank of England. Banknotes were issued to enable merchants to exchange a convenient representation of actual sterling (ie; high grade) silver for goods or services. The banknotes could then be presented to any bank which, by law, was obliged to pay the bearer the banknote's value in sterling silver which did not necessarily have to be in the form of 240 silver pennies per pound but did have to be the equivalent weight in sterling silver.

    Prior to 1528, the "pound" referred to the Tower Pound (equal to 5,400 grains and worth about £78.75 in the current market value of silver). In 1528, the standard was changed to the Troy Pound, which is a little heavier and valued in today's market at around £84.

    Now, despite the fluctuations in the value of the pound as a unit of currency, I know of no law passed that voids the promise that is still printed on banknotes today. The word "pounds" still carry the same historical meaning as far as I have been able to ascertain.

    Maybe there is a law that releives the banks of their obligation to hand over £420 worth of silver when I present my fiver and demand the bank fulfils the promise on the banknote. If anybody knows more about this, I'd be grateful for the info as I'm seriously thinking of doing this and want to be well-armed with information before attempting to screw the banks like they've been screwing us for so long.

    Any ideas?
    All I can say is whatever you are on, I would like some!


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder Darkangelsdelite Novitiate Darkangelsdelite's Avatar

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    lol! would be great if you could, but surely there must be some kind of get out clause for the banks for this otherwise everyone would do it!

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  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder rontocknell Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkangelsdelite View Post
    lol! would be great if you could, but surely there must be some kind of get out clause for the banks for this otherwise everyone would do it!
    Oh I don't doubt that there is! But wouldn't it be wonderful if there wasn't? There are numerous archaic laws that have become dormant because they no longer apply but are actually still legally enforceable. Just suppose this was one of them!?

    By the way Monty 2007, I'm sorry but there are no dealers providing what I'm on. I'm afraid you actually have to go mad.


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    Basic Account Holder GSMGuy Novitiate GSMGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Maybe it's still effective, only way, has to be to put it to the test?

    Mike


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    Basic Account Holder mree Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    I really wish I had as much spare time as you!


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    Basic Account Holder rontocknell Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by mree View Post
    I really wish I had as much spare time as you!
    No you don't!


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    Basic Account Holder fetsilva Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    lol good idea!!

    so many little laws that have gone unchanged from eons ago and yet nobody really has any idea about them for unknown reasons.

    might be worth researching this one and having a go! but hurry do it before someone changes it


  9. #9
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    To answer the original post.

    You would get diddly-squat from your bank (or any other High Street bank). They have made no such promise to you; you have no case against them for failing to pay the bearer.

    The promise to pay the bearer is one made by the Bank of England (the clue is that a banknote has the promise signed by the Chief Cashier of the BoE) - and they don't deal with individuals.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Notes issued by the Bank of England are legal tender and legal tender cannot be refused in payment of a debt. So, if you go to the Bank of England and present a five pound note and point to the promise you will be given...a five pound note. The promise is a vestige of the days when bank notes represented gold held by the banks, but now there is not enough gold to go round. The sole value of the promise is that if you take to the Bank of England an out-of date note you will be given legal tender in exchange.

    Whether bank notes are or are not money depends on how you look at it. In practice they are accepted as money and what is accepted as money is money, but all money is an illusion.


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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    In the 16th century the goldsmith-bankers began to accept deposits, make loans and transfer funds. They also gave receipts for cash, that is to say gold coins, deposited with them. These receipts, known as “running cash notes”, were made out in the name of the depositor and promised to pay him on demand.
    Many also carried the words “or bearer” after the name of the depositor, which allow them to circulate in a limited way.
    The link between gold and notes issue has been broken many times since their inseption but was finally severed in 1931 when Britain finally left the gold standard and the note issue became entirely fiduciary, that is wholly backed by securities instead of gold.

    Bank of England|Banknotes|More About Banknotes|A brief history of banknotes

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  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder rontocknell Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    patdavies wrote:

    "The promise to pay the bearer is one made by the Bank of England (the clue is that a banknote has the promise signed by the Chief Cashier of the BoE) - and they don't deal with individuals."

    Actually, Pat, they do deal with individuals...... er....... well, individuals that go in with reasonable requests, anyway.

    Maybe it was the blue woad with which I'd painted my face or maybe it was the hand-woven hemp teeshirt bearing the slogan "DEATH TO THE MONETARY SYSTEM" or the bearskin jodpurs or the lime green wellies... Then again, the horned viking helmet (although I did remove it when entering the bank even though it didn't technically qualify as a motorcycle helmet) may have alerted them to the possibility that this was not a normal customer.

    However, the cashier smiled politely when I slapped my rather grubby fiver on the counter and demanded 420 quid's worth of sterling silver.
    He shrugged and counted out five one pound coins, saying "Best we can do, I'm afraid"
    "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!!!" I hollered but the cashier simply switched on a mike and announced "Sid! We've got another one!"
    Just then, a security guard appeared, frogmarching a customer dressed as Ghengis Khan to the front door "With you in a minute, Tom" he said.

    Now I admit that I didn't really expect them to hand over five Troy Pounds of sterling silver without an argument but hurling me out the front door head first is hardly the way I'd expected the Old Lady of Threadneedle Street to behave! "You've not heard the last of this!" I shouted...... but, actually, I think they have.... well, from me, anyway.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    You really need to take more water with it.


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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aequitas View Post
    Notes issued by the Bank of England are legal tender and legal tender cannot be refused in payment of a debt. So, if you go to the Bank of England and present a five pound note and point to the promise you will be given...a five pound note.
    I agree this is probably what would happen, however it 'should' not be possible. In UK law it is illegal to pay a debt with a debt; seeing as notes are essentially IOU's from the bank 'promising' to pay, you should be breaking the law any time you exchange them for goods or services.

    By making the notes themselves legal tender, independant of any sterling silver to back them up, the government circumvents this illegality and puts us all in hock to the banks. Essentially they made an illegal practice legal, but only for themselves, you or I would be criminals for doing the same thing.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Where have you been for the past couple of years? There is no such thing as money, only confidence in certain things representing relative value. As soon as that value is questioned you get............. oh yes .......... the mess we're all in now.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    The banks want to withdraw cheques by 2015, some will cancel the cheque guarantee card from June next year, as a cheque is a promissory note along with money (both being negotiable instruments) I wonder what the banks intentions are going to be when it comes to cash?

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  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder lordcrocket Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    isnt it the bills of exchange act 1882 i think it is


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder merovengiance Novitiate

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    Default Re: I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?

    Have been reading all the threads to this, some crap and others who have definately got the idea.
    But dont forget this, there isnt any money only debt notes.
    Because the private banksters have made the governments of this world bankrupt we only deal in debt notes and you cant pay a debt with a debt.
    What they have cleverly done is to create us as the liability on all debt by the STRAWMAN system thro our birth certificate.
    The real wheeze is that everything therefore is pre paid and so you should not even have to use notes to purchase goods and services.

    Look into this as its huge and i cannot possibly go into more detail here, but as a heads up on the monetary system as it stands, get out of dodge and buy silver and gold and get rid of as much cash and shares you can.
    Don't say I didn't warn you



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