Thread: Loan Company Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

Cos They As Of Yet They Cannot Find It, I Have Given Them 2 Months In All To Comply To The Dpa, After 2 phone calls, The Latest Today, They Informed Me They As Of Yet Cannot Supply Me With An Original Signed Agreement, I There Fore Said That They Could Not Prove There Was A Debt, They Agreed That Would Be The Case, I Then Told Them I Would Write And Give Them 7 Final Days And Then Reliquish All Responsibility Ect To The Loan If They Did Not Produce A Signed Agreement, Can I Do This, And How Do I Word It.
Thanx

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Firstly, under the Consumer Credit Act, if you request a signed copy of the original agreement, they must provide it within 12 WORKING DAYS by Law. If they take longer than that plus 30 days to provide it, they have committed a criminal offence.

So - the debt is now unenforceable already. You are being extremely generous. If they have entered a "Default" on your credit file, you now have a good case for getting it removed as there IS NO DEBT.

Originally Posted by surreyscouse

Would you have to pay to see a copy of it ? And also, where can I read about this 12 day rule ?

you need to send a £1 postal order.


12 day rule:

77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

thanx for reply.. i have drafted this letter, do you think this is worded ok, its straight and to the point and gives them no more time to supply the document




Data Protection Act 1998
Subject access request


Dear Sir/Madam
REFERENCE NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I write to you regarding the telephone conversation with your department today, I have been informed by your department that the original signed agreement is missing.
I have give you time enough to supply the original signed agreement and you now have exceeded the 40 days you are allowed and by not supplying the document are committing a criminal act.
I therefore now relinquish any debts you claim I have with your company, I also request you with draw any defaults/adverse credit you have lodged against me
I give you seven days from the date of this letter to comply, otherwise I will be forced to take legal action
No other correspondence will be entered in to.

Yours faithfully,

I'm confused - was it a Subject access request under the DPA or a request for the credit agreement etc under the CCA?

If it was SAR, then what has been said in relation to offences doesn't fit - they have failed to comply with a SAR which means you can go to court to force them to comply.

If the request was made under the CCA then they have committed an offence after one calendar month, not 40 days. see this thread for more info. I would read up and work out which it is before you send the letter, because as it stands the info in it is inaccurate, I think.

hope this helps!

i origionally sent a dpa request, they sent statements but no loan agreement, they say they cannot find it, so i am now wondering where i stand with relation to the loan, if they dont have a signed agreement, where does that leave me

technically it leaves you with an unenforceable debt. I'm not sure, however, if you need to have made the CCA request to make this so - I know the end result is the same - ie they can't find the agreement, but not sure if there's some technicality that says you have to made [this] reques and not [that] one - you know how the law can be.

There are people on here though with more knowledge of this than me, and with a bit of luck, one of them will sashay over here shortly

It is important that you follow the procedure set out in the Consumer Credit Act and make a statutory request under sections 77(1) and 78(1). A draft letter is shown elsewhere on the forum - and as stated, you need to send the £1 fee.

It is only when they have defaulted under this that the debt becomes unenforceable after 12 working days (you can legally suspend payments at this point until they provide the agreement) - and after one month they have committed an offence.

Should they then seek to enforce the debt they will have to explain to the court why they defaulted, and seek permission to continue - and you can also report them to Trading Standards and the FSA.

However, remember that all this only applies after sending the letter under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

they have just written back saying they still cannot find it, they havent got one so how do i go about dumping the debt, i have sent a letter to them last friday stating that if its not received within the next 7 days i will start proceedings, but what proceedings am i to persue, i am lost from here, what court forms do i need.

Originally Posted by baconbuttyman

they have just written back saying they still cannot find it, they havent got one so how do i go about dumping the debt, i have sent a letter to them last friday stating that if its not received within the next 7 days i will start proceedings, but what proceedings am i to persue, i am lost from here, what court forms do i need.

Don't lose sight of what you want to achieve.

Unfortunately you have not given any detail in this thread as to what exactly you are challenging, and why you sent the requests in the first place.

If you believe the debt contained an element of unlawful charges, but they have been unable to provide information - and have now defaulted on the Consumer Credit Act request, then you have achieved your goal. The debt is unenforceable - and they have admitted that themselves. Job done!

If the issues are wider, then you need to give more information.

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

If you believe the debt contained an element of unlawful charges, but they have been unable to provide information - and have now defaulted on the Consumer Credit Act request, then you have achieved your goal. The debt is unenforceable - and they have admitted that themselves. Job done!

So presumably then, if the debt is unenforceable, you cannot go after unfair charges otherwise you would be admitting that you do actually own the debt, regardless of whether they can find the paperwork or not? Or am I so completely wrong?!!

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

Don't lose sight of what you want to achieve.

Unfortunately you have not given any detail in this thread as to what exactly you are challenging, and why you sent the requests in the first place.

If you believe the debt contained an element of unlawful charges, but they have been unable to provide information - and have now defaulted on the Consumer Credit Act request, then you have achieved your goal. The debt is unenforceable - and they have admitted that themselves. Job done!

If the issues are wider, then you need to give more information.

yes i was origionally after unfair charges to be refunded, the agreement was origionally reqested with the dpa request, but what i dont understand is how to get them to ackknowlege that the debt is now unenforceable with out some form of court order. what do i do if they contest the unenforcable debt

Originally Posted by dolly

So presumably then, if the debt is unenforceable, you cannot go after unfair charges otherwise you would be admitting that you do actually own the debt, regardless of whether they can find the paperwork or not? Or am I so completely wrong?!!

That would be a fair assessment.

Originally Posted by baconbuttyman

yes i was origionally after unfair charges to be refunded, the agreement was origionally reqested with the dpa request, but what i dont understand is how to get them to ackknowlege that the debt is now unenforceable with out some form of court order. what do i do if they contest the unenforcable debt

The problem lies in that fact that your initial contact was by telephone. What has actually been put in writing?

Have they actually written to you saying they cannot provide a copy of the agreement?

Have you got proof that you sent a request under the Consumer Credit Act? The letter you have shown above mentions 40-days, this looks more like a Data Protection Act request. If your request was not sent under the terms of the CCA then the terms of that Act do not apply, and the debt is still active.

Your posts are not giving a great deal of information or clarity. Without knowing exactly what you have requested, and some background information of the case, it is impossible to give a definitive answer.

Sorry, looked again, and you have confirmed that it was a DPA request - that will not have any effect on the enforceability of the debt. You need to make a request under the Consumer Credit Act.

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

Sorry, looked again, and you have confirmed that it was a Data Protection Act request - that will not have any effect on the enforceability of the debt. You need to make a request under the Consumer Credit Act.

i sent this last week which i revised and didnt send the the other example

DPA OFFICER
CitiFinancial Europe PLC
6 Admiral Way
Doxford International business park
Sunderland
Sr3 3xw

16/06/2006

letter before action

Dear Sir/Madam

REFERENCE NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We write to you regarding the telephone conversation with your department today, we have been informed by your department that the original signed agreement “which was requested as part of our original DPA request on 19/04/06 ” is missing!
We have given you time enough to supply the original signed agreement and you now have exceeded the 30 days you are allowed and by not supplying the document you are committing a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974
You are reminded that you were obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
We give you seven days from the date of this letter to comply, otherwise we will be forced to take legal action
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. In the meantime please be aware that we consider this matter to be “in dispute”.
The time for compliance with our request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject access request within 7 days of this letter, We shall apply to the county court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.
No other correspondence will be entered in to.


Yours faithfully,

i tried to find a template for the s.t.a. request and could not find one so i adapted this out of various others and a bit of research and help from you, is this ok.