Thread: HELP REQUIRED: London Scottish Finance and mis-sold PPI

Guys

Hi! With the current stalemate as regards reclaiming bankcharges, I've decided to concentrate my efforts, for the time being at least, on mis-sold PPI policies.

I've done plenty of reading on this - albeit rather less than I have on bank charges - and feel as if I have a good grasp of the fundamentals. Be that as it may, I'd appreciate any guidance from those of you with more experience in this sphere than me.

It's like this...

Back in 1998 I applied for and was given a '£1,000 cash reserve' with Cofidis, which now trades as Call-4-Cash (a trading name of London Scottish Finance Ltd).

Having made a S.A.R - (Subject access request), I've now been sent a copy of my credit agreement - in actual fact, it isn't an agreement, it's an application but that's another story - and can see that I have ticked the box whereby, "I wish to protect repayments on my Direct Cash reserve with the special Cofidis Payment Protection Plan. The cost of this (70p per £100 outstanding balance) will be included in my minimum monthly payment."

Unlike others, I have no recollection of being told that I wouldn't get the credit without this. However, I'm absolutely certain that I wasn't advised either that there may be cheaper alternatives or of any circumstances in which I might not qualify for assistance.

For the record, the only reference to the Cofidis Protection Plan in the terms and conditions of the agreement (which are included on the reverse of the application form) is as follows: "If you have taken Cofidis Protection Plan by ticking the box in Section 1 overleaf, the premiums which may vary will be calculated each month by reference to the outstanding balance of the Account inclusive of interest and will be included in the balance outstanding for the purpose of calculating your minimum monthly payment. We will deduct the monthly insurance premium from your minimum monthly payment amount and pay the same to the insurers. If you fail to pay any monthly premiums by the due date, we will pay the insurers on your behalf and the amount of any such premium will be repayable by you immediately. If any monies become payable by the insurers, they shall be payable to us and shall be credited to your account."

Moroever, at that time, I'd only been in my current job for six months which, as I understand it, might also have disqualified me from any assistance under the payment protection plan.

Furthermore, I'm also certain, that having completed my credit application and having ticked the box for PPI, I was never subsequently sent a copy of my credit agreement or offered a 'cooling-off period' during which I was offered the opportunity to reconsider.

In these circumstances, it seems to me, I have a good case for claiming this payment protection plan was mis-sold. However, I'd very much appreciate it if someone could reassure me that this is the case and, at the same time, advise me as to how I should proceed.

I pressume a prelim-type letter to London Scottish would be a good starting point. That being the case, I'd be interested to know what I should make the central thrust of my argument that the policy was mis-sold and whether or not there's anything else that I need to ascertain before doing so.

Thanks in anticiaption of your help and co-operation.

Fred_Funk

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Originally Posted by Fred_Funk

Guys

Hi! With the current stalemate as regards reclaiming bankcharges, I've decided to concentrate my efforts, for the time being at least, on mis-sold PPI policies.

I've done plenty of reading on this - albeit rather less than I have on bank charges - and feel as if I have a good grasp of the fundamentals. Be that as it may, I'd appreciate any guidance from those of you with more experience in this sphere than me.

It's like this...

Back in 1998 I applied for and was given a '£1,000 cash reserve' with Cofidis, which now trades as Call-4-Cash (a trading name of London Scottish Finance Ltd).

Having made a S.A.R - (Subject access request), I've now been sent a copy of my credit agreement - in actual fact, it isn't an agreement, it's an application but that's another story maybe the most important one- and can see that I have ticked the box whereby, "I wish to protect repayments on my Direct Cash reserve with the special Cofidis Payment Protection Plan. The cost of this (70p per £100 outstanding balance) will be included in my minimum monthly payment."

Unlike others, I have no recollection of being told that I wouldn't get the credit without this. However, I'm absolutely certain that I wasn't advised either that there may be cheaper alternatives Unfortunately they do not have to tell you this or of any circumstances in which I might not qualify for assistance. This should be in the terms and conditions of conditions which are excluded. Did you get them???????

For the record, the only reference to the Cofidis Protection Plan in the terms and conditions of the agreement (which are included on the reverse of the application form) is as follows: "If you have taken Cofidis Protection Plan by ticking the box in Section 1 overleaf, the premiums which may vary will be calculated each month by reference to the outstanding balance of the Account inclusive of interest and will be included in the balance outstanding for the purpose of calculating your minimum monthly payment. We will deduct the monthly insurance premium from your minimum monthly payment amount and pay the same to the insurers. If you fail to pay any monthly premiums by the due date, we will pay the insurers on your behalf and the amount of any such premium will be repayable by you immediately. If any monies become payable by the insurers, they shall be payable to us and shall be credited to your account."

Moroever, at that time, I'd only been in my current job for six months which, as I understand it, might also have disqualified me from any assistance under the payment protection plan. Again should be in the terms and conditions of the policy

Furthermore, I'm also certain, that having completed my credit application and having ticked the box for PPI, I was never subsequently sent a copy of my credit agreement or offered a 'cooling-off period' during which I was offered the opportunity to reconsider. Good agrument
In these circumstances, it seems to me, I have a good case for claiming this payment protection plan was mis-sold. However, I'd very much appreciate it if someone could reassure me that this is the case and, at the same time, advise me as to how I should proceed.

I pressume a prelim-type letter to London Scottish would be a good starting point. That being the case, I'd be interested to know what I should make the central thrust of my argument that the policy was mis-sold and whether or not there's anything else that I need to ascertain before doing so. Is the credit agreement?application enforcable? Does it have all of the prescribed terms? You received no ?terms and conditions of the policy and no cancellations rights.

Thanks in anticiaption of your help and co-operation.

Fred_Funk

Hello Fred,

I feel the main point of your argument is the fact that the insurance was sold as routine and no explanation of whether it was suitable to your needs etc. I have highlighted part in red for your attention. Be prepared for a fight to get it back, they will throw back, you signed and ticked the box, so best have something up your sleeve, maybe the ca/appl. Have you posted up a copy for others to see.

Good luck

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello Fred,

I feel the main point of your argument is the fact that the insurance was sold as routine and no explanation of whether it was suitable to your needs etc. I have highlighted part in red for your attention. Be prepared for a fight to get it back, they will throw back, you signed and ticked the box, so best have something up your sleeve, maybe the ca/appl. Have you posted up a copy for others to see.

Good luck

Thanks. What you've said has given me plenty of food for thought. Now I know I'm thinking along the right lines, I shall do a bit more reading and try and come up with a stratergy to reclaim ny money.

In the meantime, if anyone can offer any more thoughts or pointers then, it goes without saying, I'd be much obliged.

Fred_Funk

Having done a little more work on this, I've spotted that when I began getting statements from Call-4-Cash, they said the following...

Payment Protection

If you have chosen to protect your Cofidis account with our optional Payment Protection insurance scheme, your monthly payments will be protected against accident, death or unemployment, subject to the terms covered by the Payment Protector within your application, at a cost of just 80p for every £100 outstanding on your account. To take advantage of Payment Protection, simply call Cofidis on 0990 22 1000, and remember that the protection charge will be included in your minimum monthly payement.

The things is, having now received a copy of the aforementioned application - which, incidentally, appears to double up as an agreement as far as Call-4-Cash are concerned - as a result of my S.A.R - (Subject access request), it doesn't appear to include any terms for payment protection.

Indeed, the only references to it are as follows - on the application, I've ticked a box saying...

I wish to protect repayments on my Direct Cash reserve with the special Cofidis Payment Protection Plan. The cost of this (80p per £100 outstanding balance) will be included in my minimum monthly repayment.

The only further reference to this - on the reverse side of the agreement under the terms and conditions - is as follows...

Cofidis Protection Plan

If you have taken Cofidis Protection Plan by ticking the box in Section 1 opposite, the premiums which may vary will be calculated each month by reference to the outstanding balance of the Account inclusive of interest and will be included in the balance outstanding for the purpose of calculating your minimum monthly payment. We will deduct the monthly insurance premium from your minimum monthly payment amount and pay the same to the insurers. If you fail to pay any monthly premiums by the due date, we will pay the insurers on your behalf and the amount of any such premium will be repayable by you immediately. If any monies become payable by the insurers, they shall be payable to us and credited to your Account.

If, as my statements lead me to believe, this is all Call-4-Cash/Cofidis/London Scottish have ever supplied me with as regards to the terms and conditions of the payment protection I have been paying them handsomely for - that's to say, they haven't even provided any details of circumstances in which it can and can't be utilised - does this add weight to my claim that it's been mis-sold?

Moreover, is it acceptable for Cofidis to refer to their payment protection scheme as 'special' within the piece of text next to the box I have ticked on the application form (see above)? Aside from the fact there is, with hindsight, no obvious reason why this scheme is 'special', isn't the mere suggestion that it is encouraging people to tick a box they might otherwise choose not to?

Any thoughts and advice on how best to proceed would, as ever, be much appreciated! ;-)

Thanks in anticipation.

Fred_Funk

Apologies... just pushing this back toward the top of the pile while keeping my fingers firmly crossed that one or two people may respond! ;-)

I don't think that there is any mileage in th special phrase, as any good lawyer would argue that it is a special type of insurance only available with this product or type of product ie you couldn't get it without having the product(and at those rates why would anyone want it:o )

How much are you looking to claim and what is your balance owing on the account at present?

Originally Posted by gizmo111

How much are you looking to claim and what is your balance owing on the account at present?

gizmo111, thanks for your input.

I don't owe anything now but I'd guess I paid around £3,000 in PPI over the course of five or six years - and if I think I've got a genuine case for arguing it was mis-sold, I'd be lookng for CI as well.

Why do you ask?

What's more, can you tell me if it's right - as I read on Financial Advice, News, Help & Guides from This is Money UK - that somewhere on my agreement the lender is obliged to advise the total APR, including insurance, and that if they haven't I can pursue a claim for mis-selling?!

Thanks in anticipation
Fred_Funk

Originally Posted by Fred_Funk

gizmo111, thanks for your input.

I don't owe anything now but I'd guess I paid around £3,000 in PPI over the course of five or six years - and if I think I've got a genuine case for arguing it was mis-sold, I'd be lookng for CI as well.

Why do you ask?

What's more, can you tell me if it's right - as I read on Financial Advice, News, Help & Guides from This is Money UK - that somewhere on my agreement the lender is obliged to adverise the total APR, including insurance, and that if they haven't I can pursue a claim for mis-selling?!

Thanks in anticipation
Fred_Funk

Hello Fred,

I did read something about unfair advertising and mis-leading advertisement, but cannot find it at present. Will keep looking

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello Fred,

I did read something about unfair advertising and mis-leading advertisement, but cannot find it at present. Will keep looking

Thanks. It'd be great if you do find something.

In the meantime, I'd really appreciate a definitive answer as to whether or not the lender is obliged to provide to advise the total APR, including PPI, and that if they didn't I can pursue a claim for mis-selling. Anyone?!

With that in mind, try as I might - and, believe me, I've tried - I can't find a definitive guide to what does and doesn't constitute mis-selling anywhere, either on here or elsewhere.

If anyone can point me in the direction of such a thing, I'd be incredibly grateful.

Thanks in anticipation
Fred_Funk

Originally Posted by Fred_Funk

Thanks. It'd be great if you do find something.

In the meantime, I'd really appreciate a definitive answer as to whether or not the lender is obliged to provide to advise the total APR, including PPI, and that if they didn't I can pursue a claim for mis-selling. Anyone?!

With that in mind, try as I might - and, believe me, I've tried - I can't find a definitive guide to what does and doesn't constitute mis-selling anywhere, either on here or elsewhere.

If anyone can point me in the direction of such a thing, I'd be incredibly grateful.

Thanks in anticipation
Fred_Funk

This is from the fsa website, ther is a load of info on it re mis-selling ppi and what the fsa are doing about it.

The sale of payment protection insurance – results of follow-up thematic work

Hello still looking for the wrongful advertising:o

Found it I think

The Office of Fair Trading: What is a misleading advertisement?

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

This is from the fsa website, ther is a load of info on it re mis-selling PPI and what the fsa are doing about it.

The sale of payment protection insurance – results of follow-up thematic work

Hello still looking for the wrongful advertising:o

Found it I think

The Office of Fair Trading: What is a misleading advertisement?

Thanks. I've just had a quick glance at these and they look very useful. Rest assured, I'll be printing them out and reading them thoroughly tomorrow.

As it happens, I was so desperate to find some definitive guidelines that I rang the Financial Ombudsman earlier today. The woman I spoke to was insistent, there were no specific guidelines as to precisely what would and wouldn't constitute mis-selling but that every case would be considered on its merits.

While finding this a little hard to believe - given my difficulty in tracking down any such guidelines - I guess she's probably right though I'd be keen to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise.

Likewise, I'd also like to hear from anyone who can provide a definitive answer as to whether or not a lender is obliged to provide to advise the total APR, including PPI, and whether if they haven't done it will add weight to my claim that the policy was mis-sold.

In anycase, there is, it appears, lots of good stuff in the above links which, I'm sure, will provide me with plenty of ammunition for my claim.

As ever, thanks in anticipation. ;-)

Fred_Funk

Originally Posted by Fred_Funk

gizmo111, thanks for your input.

I don't owe anything now but I'd guess I paid around £3,000 in PPI over the course of five or six years - and if I think I've got a genuine case for arguing it was mis-sold, I'd be lookng for CI as well.

Why do you ask?


Thanks in anticipation
Fred_Funk

No reason other than its always a good negotiating point if you have something they want ie a balance

Guys

Hi. Thanks for all your help and guidance thus far. Fingers crossed, you will come up with the goods again now! ;-)

I dare say I knew the answers to some of the questions I'm about to ask at some point. The thing is, I've done so much reading now that my head is spinning and, with that in mind, I'd be grateful for any clarification you're able to give me.

(1) I ticked a box asking for payment protection on the application form I filled in. As far as I can ascertain, the agreement was non-cancellable (as there was no face-to-face commuication). Moreover, with the application form doubling up as an agreement, there was no cause for London Scottish to send me a further copy.

Therefore, in effect, I signed up for payment protection without any knowledge of the terms and conditions of the policy - an oversight which was exacerbated by London Scottish's failure to supply me either a copy of our credit agreement or any details of the payment protection plan I'd ill-advisedly signed up for.

Can anyone tell me, were London Scottish obliged to provide me with details of the payment protection I'd signed up for? And, given they didn't, do I have legitimate grounds for arguing that had they done so I might have elected to cancel the PPI?

(2) I made a SAR some months ago and received nothing more than a simple statement of account. I advised London Scottish that this was unsatisfactory and asked for any further documentation they were able to supply me with and, in particular, details of the insurance cover I'd signed up for.

I've now been sent a 'narrative' detailing all communication between us - whether by letter or phone - and copies of policy documents for my PPI cover. I'm 100 per cent certain I have never seen these policy documents before and, what's more, there is nothing on my narrative to suggest they were ever sent to me.

Am I right in thinking it's up to London Scottish to prove I did receive these documents when I signed up for PPI - assuming, that is, they're obliged to supply me with them (see Question 1) rather than for me to prove they didn't?!

Thanking you in anticiaption of your help and guidance! ;-)

Fred_Funk

Originally Posted by Fred_Funk

Guys

Hi. Thanks for all your help and guidance thus far. Fingers crossed, you will come up with the goods again now!

I dare say I knew the answers to some of the questions I'm about to ask at some point. The thing is, I've done so much reading now that my head is spinning and, with that in mind, I'd be grateful for any clarification you're able to give me.

(1) I ticked a box asking for payment protection on the application form I filled in. As far as I can ascertain, the agreement was non-cancellable (as there was no face-to-face commuication).?????? Maybe read the thread by Peter Bard Agreement Enforcability, cover cancellable, non cancellable agreements. I thought it was the other way, but may be wrong, my head spins sometimes as well. Moreover, with the application form doubling up as an agreement, there was no cause for London Scottish to send me a further copy. Did it contain all of the prescribed terms etc.

Therefore, in effect, I signed up for payment protection without any knowledge of the terms and conditions of the policy - an oversight which was exacerbated by London Scottish's failure to supply me either a copy of our credit agreement or any details of the payment protection plan I'd ill-advisedly signed up for. MMmmm no credit agreement. have they defaulted on this.

Can anyone tell me, were London Scottish obliged to provide me with details of the payment protection I'd signed up for? And, given they didn't, do I have legitimate grounds for arguing that had they done so I might have elected to cancel the PPI? yes

(2) I made a S.A.R - (Subject access request) some months ago and received nothing more than a simple statement of account. I advised London Scottish that this was unsatisfactory and asked for any further documentation they were able to supply me with and, in particular, details of the insurance cover I'd signed up for.

I've now been sent a 'narrative' detailing all communication between us - whether by letter or phone - and copies of policy documents for my PPI cover. I'm 100 per cent certain I have never seen these policy documents before and, what's more, there is nothing on my narrative to suggest they were ever sent to me.

Am I right in thinking it's up to London Scottish to prove I did receive these documents when I signed up for PPI - assuming, that is, they're obliged to supply me with them (see Question 1) rather than for me to prove they didn't?!

Thanking you in anticiaption of your help and guidance!

Fred_Funk

Hello Fred,

Hope you are well and your head has stopped spinning

Thes financial institutes if they do send you any information is is always by normal post, never recorded So if they sent anything, how do they know you got it,

You should have received the terms and conditions of the ppi policy, or how would you know what you should actually have been able to claim or not and therefore cancel it.

This I used in my arguement.

One of the previous post that you posted, discussed the apr. With one of the Natwest policies I supposedly agreed to. they charged me £4,600 for the premium and when I sent letter after letter to argue for a total breakdown, it came to light that they had charged me over £4,000 in interest. The apr was 8.9% and they charged that each year for 10years.So it amounted to 89%, when I found that one out, they did pay up rather promptly. They make my blood boil.

Hi Fred,
Sorry for the dealy in responding, Long story..lol But Im back in Action again..

Re the querie of Total Credit or Total charge for Credit, I think they will squirm out of that one, If the Premium is variable against the balance there would be no actual way of pre calculating the actual cost of your PPI.

Have you asked them to supply a copy of the terms and conditions relating to the Actual PPI policy, Being an Insurance policy it would have be underwritten by some Insurance Company, you may have to try and find out the name of the insurance company and try and get the info from them.

Good Luck

Ian

Firstly, apologies for not having been a bit more pro-active with this thread but I've been awfully busy over the past few weeks.

As I said, London Scottish Finance have now supplied me with a copy of the terms & conditions relating to the PPI - in actual fact, they've supplied me with two sets of slightly different terms & conditions because they changed their insurers somewhere along the way.

Having now got sight of these documents, I am 101 per cent sure that I've never seen them before in my life. Moreover, there is nothing on the narrative I was sent as a result of my Subject access request to suggest otherwise.

That being the case, this will I hope, add weight to my claim that the policy was mis-sold. With that in mind, if anyone can confirm that I should as a matter of course have received details of the policies and point me in the direction of something which confirms this, I'd be most eternally grateful.

Likewise, if anyone has any further thoughts on how I might best proceed from here on in, I'd like to hear them.

Thanking you all in anticipation of your help and co-operation.

Fred_Funk

Hello Fred,

There is a lot of information on the FSA site regarding their investigations re mis-selling of PPI.

FSA determined to see better practice in PPI sales

Have a look at the press releases over the last few years to see if there is anything that will help your case.

Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the horns and do it.

These firms were and are not interested in following correct procedures, they only want your money.

This is why the fsa are investigating the whole matter.

In an ideal world, you should have been given thorough information regarding the insurance policy before you (if you did) ticked the box. Been sent the terms and conditions of the insurance and then given the cooling off period to decide whether it was a good option for you to continue with it. You were not given those choices.

Have you contacted the company that sold you the ppi?

Have you prepared your prelim letter and calculated how much you wish to be refunded?

Keep us posted

Hi Fred Funk - I have read your thread with interest.
It's been a while since you last posted - how is it going?