Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
2 very important questions in light of the test case
The way i understand it is that the OFT are taking these bankers to court to decide if the t&c's are unfair, so here are my 2 questions.
1. surely if its ok for the banks to "suspend" all claims pending outcome of the case, the surely its only fair all penalty charges are suspended also pending the outcome of the case?
2. Surely this idea of suspending all claims should ONLY apply if you have involved the F.O.S., Surely the F.O.S. has no ground to intervene in a "private civil court case".
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
1. Of course that would be good, but the consumer always gets the raw deal.
2. Court cases continue as normal, fos / OFT cannot intervene, however some judges will stay matters pending the outcome of the test case.
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
Good point but alas Lloyds TSB have already issued a statement on their website stating they will still charge as they see their charges as basically being fit for the crime and not unfair plus they will ask for all cases to be suspended for as long as it takes, and they have stated it could be at least 1 year. Says it all for LTSB really.
Lloyds TSB -Settled in full 30/08/06
Now whoes next
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
And here it is from their website
Answers to questions on bank charges
Q: What is happening? A: On 27 July, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), Lloyds TSB, six other UK banks and a building society started a court case to decide on the legality of unauthorised overdraft charges. Together, these banks and the building society provide more than 93% of current accounts in the UK.
This case is being called a "test case" because the decision will clarify the law in this area and is likely to apply to all current and new claims against current account providers about unauthorised overdraft charges.
We will continue to post updates on our website to keep customers informed of progress on the test case as this could run for at least a year.
Q: What will happen to customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges? A: Lloyds TSB will suspend dealing with or resolving customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running.
If you do complain about your unauthorised overdraft charges, we will write to tell you that we have received your complaint and that we will record it on your file. When a final decision is reached in the test case, we will contact you as soon as possible to tell you how we will resolve your complaint. We will apply the decision in the court case to all complaints we receive.
Q: Why are the banks allowed to stop dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints during the test case? A: We applied to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for a suspension of the normal timetable for dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints. The FSA decided that in the circumstances, it was appropriate to grant us a suspension of our obligations under the FSA's complaint handling rules whilst we seek legal certainty on this issue. The suspension is subject to a series of conditions designed to protect customers' rights. You can read the form of the FSA suspension (direction) here: www.fsa.gov.uk.
All customers who have made a written complaint on unauthorised overdraft charges but haven’t yet had a final response will receive a letter to explain the position with respect to their complaint.
Q: I’ve recently requested copy statements as the start of making acomplaint about bank charges. Can I still make a complaint? A: We’re always happy to send copy statements on payment of our service fee. If you have requested them they should be sent to you within 40 days of payment of this fee. However, you should note that if you then write to make a complaint about your bank charges this will be treated as set out above.
Q: Can I make a court claim for a refund during the test case? A: Yes, but we will apply to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: Can I complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about my bank charges? A: The Financial Ombudsman Service (fos) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this and letting you know what will happen.
Q: What if I have already been made an offer? A: We will stand by any offer to settle a complaint or court claim that we have already made to our customers. If you have received an offer to settle from us which is still outstanding we will be writing to you again shortly. Our letter will explain that customers have two months to decide whether to refuse our offer and wait for the decision in the test case. If you do choose to refuse an offer, and return the settlement amount to us, your complaint will be held and recorded by us until there is a final decision in the test case. We will then contact you again as soon as possible to finally resolve your complaint.
Q: I have already accepted an offer from you. Will my complaint be revisited? A: If we have made a 'Full and final settlement' which you have accepted, we believe it unlikely you would be awarded a further sum even if the test case indicates you could have claimed a potentially larger amount. However, accepting any such settlement does not stop you from asking for repayment on any further new charges incurred if the court finds they are unlawful.
Q: You’ve rejected my complaint, what can I do now? A: You may wish to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. However as set out above, the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this.
In addition, you can also make a court claim for a refund during the test case. However we will be applying to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: How long will the test case take? A: At this time it is too soon to give any exact timescales for a conclusion to the test case but it could go for more than a year. We have agreed with the OFT and the FSA to conduct the test case in an efficient, prompt and orderly way.
Q: How can you continue to charge what you do for these services when there is legal challenge? A: We believe that our current account fees and charges are clear and represent a fair charge for a banking service that is valued by our customers. That is why we have worked with the other major UK banks and the OFT to start legal proceedings, which we believe will clarify the law in this area.
Q: Does this test case and the suspension of unauthorised overdraft claims apply to my credit card complaint? A: No this test case and the suspension applies only to complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges and the law which applies to them.
Q: Where can I find out more? A:You can contact us by calling 0845 603 0899.
Alternatively, you can find more information through the following links:
The Financial Services Authority: www.fsa.gov.uk
The Office of Fair Trading: www.oft.gov.uk
The Financial Ombudsman Service: www.financial-ombudsman.co.uk
Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!*
-£445 refunded after one phonecall HERE
Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***
-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered
-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response
-11/07/07 - Filed at court
- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made HERE
Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement!
-29/06/07 - Defence filed
-16/08/07 - AQ filed
-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! HERE and continued HERE
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
It will be interesting to see what happens to claims with banks not signed
up to the OFT agreement like A&L and Co-op. In theory they cannot refuse to deal with claims.
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
Reading the OFT/Bank agrrement for the test case, it appears this will only apply to personal accounts and not business accounts. It will be interesting to see how the banks are going to deal with these.
Please Click The Scales if I have been of help to you.
Kensington Mortgages withdrawn. no costs
NatWest Settled in full
Abbey Court Settled in Full
Capital 1 settled in full
Halifax settled in full
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
Interesting point you make buttyman about charges being suspended if they can stay cases. Personally I am close to submitting a court claim. A few months ago i changed from Lloyd's TSB to a different bank and moved all my DDs and SOs over but deliberately left a couple of small standing debit card payments. Total of £45. With charges its now over £300. This was to try and show how unfair the charges are especially with the T&Cs for debit card misuse stating it is breaking the agreement. This has been since roughly April time. Its now wit their collections department who phone and write regularly only to be told that as the account is under dispute that they shouldn't be pursuing me.
I'm now waiting to see if they take it further and issue a court claim against me. If they do I think it would be prudent for me to ask for a stay awaiting the outcome of the pending court case. Surely if its OK for them to ask for stays then whats the problem for us to ask as well.
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
Hi,sorry to jump in.
Maybe these are stupid questions but,
I cant find anything in this Q &A`s (see below) relating to `Payment reversals` etc etc
only `Unaurthorised overdraft charges`,so how can they suspend all complaints regarding all other types of charges ?
Surely if you were to continue with your complaint,but,omitting `unauthorised overdraft charges `for the time being ,they would still have to deal with it?
Am i missing the point here ? Are all charges applied to current accounts regarded as `Unauthorised Overdraught Charges` ?
They are certainly not indicated as such on the list of charges supplied to me from Intelligent Finance.
Answers to questions on bank charges
Q: What is happening? A: On 27 July, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), Lloyds TSB, six other UK banks and a building society started a court case to decide on the legality of unauthorised overdraft charges. Together, these banks and the building society provide more than 93% of current accounts in the UK.
This case is being called a "test case" because the decision will clarify the law in this area and is likely to apply to all current and new claims against current account providers about unauthorised overdraft charges.
We will continue to post updates on our website to keep customers informed of progress on the test case as this could run for at least a year.
Q: What will happen to customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges? A: Lloyds TSB will suspend dealing with or resolving customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running.
If you do complain about your unauthorised overdraft charges, we will write to tell you that we have received your complaint and that we will record it on your file. When a final decision is reached in the test case, we will contact you as soon as possible to tell you how we will resolve your complaint. We will apply the decision in the court case to all complaints we receive.
Q: Why are the banks allowed to stop dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints during the test case? A: We applied to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for a suspension of the normal timetable for dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints. The FSA decided that in the circumstances, it was appropriate to grant us a suspension of our obligations under the FSA's complaint handling rules whilst we seek legal certainty on this issue. The suspension is subject to a series of conditions designed to protect customers' rights. You can read the form of the FSA suspension (direction) here: www.fsa.gov.uk.
All customers who have made a written complaint on unauthorised overdraft charges but haven’t yet had a final response will receive a letter to explain the position with respect to their complaint.
Q: I’ve recently requested copy statements as the start of making acomplaint about bank charges. Can I still make a complaint? A: We’re always happy to send copy statements on payment of our service fee. If you have requested them they should be sent to you within 40 days of payment of this fee. However, you should note that if you then write to make a complaint about your bank charges this will be treated as set out above.
Q: Can I make a court claim for a refund during the test case? A: Yes, but we will apply to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: Can I complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about my bank charges? A: The Financial Ombudsman Service (fos) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this and letting you know what will happen.
Q: What if I have already been made an offer? A: We will stand by any offer to settle a complaint or court claim that we have already made to our customers. If you have received an offer to settle from us which is still outstanding we will be writing to you again shortly. Our letter will explain that customers have two months to decide whether to refuse our offer and wait for the decision in the test case. If you do choose to refuse an offer, and return the settlement amount to us, your complaint will be held and recorded by us until there is a final decision in the test case. We will then contact you again as soon as possible to finally resolve your complaint.
Q: I have already accepted an offer from you. Will my complaint be revisited? A: If we have made a 'Full and final settlement' which you have accepted, we believe it unlikely you would be awarded a further sum even if the test case indicates you could have claimed a potentially larger amount. However, accepting any such settlement does not stop you from asking for repayment on any further new charges incurred if the court finds they are unlawful.
Q: You’ve rejected my complaint, what can I do now? A: You may wish to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. However as set out above, the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this.
In addition, you can also make a court claim for a refund during the test case. However we will be applying to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: How long will the test case take? A: At this time it is too soon to give any exact timescales for a conclusion to the test case but it could go for more than a year. We have agreed with the OFT and the FSA to conduct the test case in an efficient, prompt and orderly way.
Q: How can you continue to charge what you do for these services when there is legal challenge? A: We believe that our current account fees and charges are clear and represent a fair charge for a banking service that is valued by our customers. That is why we have worked with the other major UK banks and the OFT to start legal proceedings, which we believe will clarify the law in this area.
Q: Does this test case and the suspension of unauthorised overdraft claims apply to my credit card complaint? A: No this test case and the suspension applies only to complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges and the law which applies to them.
Q: Where can I find out more? A:You can contact us by calling 0845 603 0899.
Alternatively, you can find more information through the following links:
The Financial Services Authority: www.fsa.gov.uk
The Office of Fair Trading: www.oft.gov.uk
The Financial Ombudsman Service: www.financial-ombudsman.co.uk
__________________
Re: 2 very important questions in light of the test case
Hi Julian
Yes the case is about unauthorised overdraft charges and whether the terms are unfair or not. Whichever wat it goes then the same principal would be applied to whatever the charge is for. If the charge is unfair for unouthorised overdrafy yhen it follows its unfair regarding returned payments.
Its only my opinion but i would think that if a judge was in a mind to stay a case, he would take the above into consideration if the bank put it in their request for a stay.
Knowing the way the banks work, they have probably already thought about that and even if they do and the test case is lost by them, then I think they will turn tails and argue that the result only encompases unauthorised overdrafts.
2 very important questions in light of the test case
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