Thread: RoyB vs. RBoS

Hi,
I have had an account with RBoS since around 2001 which was a sole trader business account. I ran my own computer business and survived so so until last year when I had a heart attack which forced the closing of the business. The main source of business funding was a business overdraft which of course grew as did the business, and now stands at around £9,000. Following a trip south in March to bury my father, I returned to find that my account had gone from £100 under my OD limit to £375 over that limit, and that the only two DDs to be paid (£55) were unpaid.:?
At that point, or soon after, I discovered this site, and started investigating. Believe me, I have read the FAQs, three times right through, and I have also read through many threads in this section, (over 50%), and while I have a tested IQ of 147, there are a few things I remain unsure of since I can find no mention of them anywhere so far.
I have checked through all my statements since 2001, (I just asked my bank and they mailed them to me in just 4 days!), I find charges can be broken down into 3 classes. First the standard account charges for paying in and withdrawing money, DDs Cheques etc. This group seems in order, and is quite legal I guess, the charge being about 50p per transaction. The second group is referrals, unpaid cheques and DDs, charges ranging from £25 up to £90 and is I feel unlawful. So far no problem, but now there is a gray area, Overdraft arrangement fees. This commenced at a swingeing £100 in 2001, and was repeated in 2002 for a renewal or maintenance fee. This has been repeated at intervals increasingly frequently, 3 times in as many months, and has hiked up to £150. Although these are listed as charges, they are obviously not really penalty charges, or are they, I don't know, but if they are service charges I would have felt that they are rather excessive. My query is, do I have a case to challenge these as well. The class 2 charges for the 5 years total £1003.05 where the O/D charges total over £1200. :o
I am quite happy about the procedures but rather uncertain about just how much of the charges I can look to recover. Does anyone have any experience of this?

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Ok, further research suggests that I won't be able to recover any of the O/D fees/charges, at least, not easily, but it would seem that some banks make a charge for exceeding the O/D limit. Well I never had that, but I was hammered for interest, any time the O/D went over the limit my interest rate went up to 29.5%! I assume that if the charges etc. hadn't pushed me over the limit, since I wouldn't have been on the high interest rate, I should be able to claim back that interest, however, the statements do not break down the interest into it's individual components, do I have to do a DPA letter to the bank asking for a Breakdown of all the interest paid over the 5 years?
Is there any way to shortcut the amount of work involved in looking up bank interest rates and working up a complete new account over the last 5 years because the few charges applied 5 years ago together with the extra interest charged, will ripple forward through the years, reducing the totals all along the way, and further reducing the interest through to date. Because of this bank's differential interest policy, the charges could amount to the smallest part of the damage caused, the cumulative effect of the high interest rate could easily double or even treble the amount of the charges.
Nowhere that I have looked so far has mentioned this effect so I'm wondering if I've missed something or have I actually found a new wrinkle. All comments would be gratefully received before I get stuck in to what could be a very heavy week's work.:o

Hello all, I'm sorry I just disappeared like that, but my wife had to go into hospital for major surgery. She is now home and convalescing slowly, but well enough so that I have found time to get back to this problem. On top of all the rest, this latter forced inactivity has triggered the bank into going for a default notice, they are saying that there has been insufficient turnover on the account to justify the overdraft. My attitude being that it was only their charges and interest charges that put the account over it's limit so I couldn't use it. Whatever, I have sent them the standard S10 letter incase they have not got the default notice yet, and I have also sent them the preliminary request for repayment and the copy of my calculations.
There however, lies a small problem.The Scottish advanced spreadsheet seems to have a few problems. For a start, though it says it is set up for 770 lines, it is only set up for 41 lines on sheet 2 and 44 lines on sheet 3. The subtotals are also faulty in that they don't do what they say they should because they are only set to add up 41 lines. I changed that OK, but some of the totals are not that simple using as they do, a hidden range of cells, and some weird accounting logic. The only other problems I found were in deducing what dates to input in the sheet in sheet 3 I4 & I6. Any assistance forthcoming for a weary old man would be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Mairi

hi Roy,
If you need help with the interest sheet there is a giant thread in the "General" forum with 100's of replies, called "Spreadsheet with Interest" you may find your answer there. Or i think you can email Vampiress, if you can't find the answer. I read lots of it the other week. WoW, you'll be there for a while LOL.
Mairi

Thanks a lot, wife and I are both disabled, and with her just out of hospital and only slightly mobile with 2 crutches, 24 hours just aren't enough to get a day's chores done. True, she is slowly getting better, but it will be some time before I can find enough time to sleep as well. I'll go have a look at the thread you mentioned, thanks again.

Well it appears I may have been too late getting them to stop the default notice, I got a letter from them this morning requiring repayment in full of my overdraft or an acceptable offer of repayment. Since this arose because my overdraft was over it's limit because of their unlawful charges and interest, hence I could not use the account, therefore the account usage did not justify the overdraft etc. etc. etc.
Is this any reason not to proceed as planned?

What a week this has been! :o On Monday the 11th September, I delivered to the RBoS local branch, my prelim letter requesting repayment of my charges to that date, or at least up to August which was when I got the statements. The total including interest according to the advanced spreadsheet, was £999.08. On Monday 18th I got a letter from my local branch business manager saying the usual, that their charges were fair, transparent etc., and anyway the bank thought that the OFT ruling didn't apply to business accounts, but as a gesture of goodwill, he would refund some of the charges for the smaller amounts, no details given. I ignored it. On Wednesday 20th, I got a letter from headquarters in Edinburgh saying much the same thing, but without mention of any refund, and with a leaflet about the banking Ombudsman. (Not even any use for the toilet, it's too hard and shiny!). I ignored it too. Yesterday was my birthday, not one of my best quite frankly. Today I had to take my wife back to the hospital at Ninewells to see the surgeon who rebuilt her hip, and I say rebuilt advisedly, since after being left for two years after it was worn out, (The NHS's doing, not ours!), there was very little pelvic bone left to attach the new cup to, and due to the degree of invasive treatment required for this procedure, it would appear that her recovery is going to be very slow and very painful. However, I digress, the post arrived before we left, just one letter from RBoS in Edinburgh saying all the same rubbish as before, the charges are fair, transparent and as per contract etc., but it went on to say that :-
The Bank has considered the OFT's statement of 5th April 2006 and does not accept it's findings in relation to the setting of credit card and mortgage fees. We are concerned that the OFT has publicly called into question the setting of charges applied to other products, including including current accounts. The OFT has restricted it's investigation to credit cards and mortgages and made no attempt to consult with the RBS Group or the industry in relation to other entirely different products.
Consequently, against this background, the Bank must differ with the views you have expressed and I am satisfied from my review that the interest and fees have been charged correctly, in line with the Bank's published tariff and are therefore rightly due. I also consider that the full amount outstanding, (my overdraft), which as at the date of this letter, stands at £****.**, is correct.
Turning to your comments with regard to the bank registering a default against you on the above mentioned account, I regret I have no record of this and am unable to locate the registration of it at the Credit Reference Agencies. (Strange since I have a letter from the bank saying that they had done so!)
I am prepared, as a gesture of goodwill, to refund £999.08 to your account as requested. This is not to be construed in any way as an admittance by the Bank with regard to the fees and charges applied.
They then go on about recovery of my overdraft etc.
Damn them!!!! I was just about to up the ante by putting in a claim for 29.7% compound interest on the 'unarranged borrowing' from me, which is exactly what the buzzards have been charging me, under the principle of reciprococity, it would nearly double what they now agreed to pay.
Do I have to simply accept their offer, or can I stick my neck out, grab the offer but under the understanding that I will be persuing them for the interest, and carry on with a claim for the extra 29.7%? An informed opinion would be appreciated by Monday please