Thread: Court Wants Further Poc??

Hi everybody, could someone please advise, I received from the courts a 'General form of Judgement or Order' it says -

"Before district judge thomas sitting at Cheltenham county court " then court address
"Upon a defence having been filed
IT IS ORDERED THAT
The claimant do file with the court, Further particulars of claim and do serve the defendant with the same by 27th July 2007 after which date the file will be referred to the district judge for further directions. In failure therof the Claimant's claim will be struck out
The district judges of this court require the amount of bank charges claimed in the claim form to be particularised showing how the total amount claimed is arrived at by specifying the date,amount and type of each charge claimed. It is not acceptable to merely file or copy bank statements even if the relevant charges are highlighted theron.
This order was made on the district judge's own initiative pursuant to CPR part 23.8 If you object to the terms of this order you must make an application to the court to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it pursuant to CPR part 23.10*
*This means that if a party is not happy with this order and wishes to object to it, then a party merely has to write a letter to the court with 7 days of the date of this order specifying the objection and stating the grounds for it; no fee is payable for doing this. The file will then be referred to the district judge.
Dated 6th July 2007"

I used the N1 claim form and CAG's POC info as it was more detailed than using MCOL, this was filed on the 4th June, served to A+L on the 10th June, A+ L submitted their defence (all 6 pages of it) on the 15th June then I received this letter from the courts on the 7th July.
Firstly, do I send a copy of the origional POC's? (as set out on my N1 form)
Secondly, what does it all mean? does it mean that I am not going to get an AQ ( I was waiting for 1) Could I send in a Draft order and Statement of Evidence.
Thirdly, have I missed something or is this normal?
I thought everything was going as it should, reading carefully through the threads there's always been really helpful advice , then I get this letter and its thrown me into a panic

Advice greatly appreciated

kind regards - jacky

Similar Threads:

• When returning my court bundle to the court, do I send it to the particular judge?
• Is a County Court Claim Valid without the court seal
• Raising an N1 County Court claim - what are the odds of ending up in court?

Good morning Jackie,
Another nocturnal creature like me.

All they are asking you to do is send a Breakdown of your claimed charges. When I did mine, I filled in a spreadsheet, but this only showed the amount of charges for each month, not what they were for. So I went onto Reclaim Unfair Charges from banks & credit card companies! and downloaded what is called a charges summary sheet, this way I managed to itemise each and every charge and what they were for. Must have done it right, cos Wragge's never pulled me over anything, just said any charges after the 24th of May would not count, if you're looking in Wragge's, "Oh yes they will"
Since then I went onto the monesaving website and found a nice easy to use calculator for working out the charges plus the court's statutory 8% interest rate. With me everything is now bang up to date, I do not intend to spend any money amending my claim as my first figures were slightly off base and I also used compounded interest. When I filed my claim, I broke my figures into three amounts, bank charges, compounded interest and finally 8% court interest. This way the judge could decide for himself whether I got the compounded interest or just the court's 8%.
I think that covers everything Jackie, I'll go back and check your pm.
Squarebob

Hi Jacky,

All the best in your claim. It is normal to panic, just keep asking questions if you are unsure of anything. I can guarantee you the panic will disappear.

The judge has not ordered an allocation questionnaire in these orders, you may or may not be ordered to submit one in the future. You could phone the court and ask if the allocation questionnaires are being dispensed with in your court, or ask if it is being dispensed with in your case. The court officials have always been helpful to me.

Regarding this..................... .. The district judges of this court require the amount of bank charges claimed in the claim form to be particularised showing how the total amount claimed is arrived at by specifying the date,amount and type of each charge claimed. It is not acceptable to merely file or copy bank statements even if the relevant charges are highlighted Theron. The part of the order ("specifying the date ,amount and type of each charge") is the part that you may have to address. Its clear that the judge requires this info!

I assume that you have included a Schedule of Charges as part of your POC when you filed at the court. If you have not then this may explain why the judge has ordered you to file with the court and serve the defendant "further particulars of claim". To rectify this, send two copies to the court with a cover note (with Claim number and so on) respectfully asking that, the Schedule of Charges be attached to you claim. I would send two copies to the A&L agents (rec Del). If the A&L dont have a copy of your Schedule of Charges, they as the defendant should also get a copy.

Could you post up your POC's for the CAG members to look at? There may be something in it that they can identify which you have "missed".

William

Hi, thanks for your replies, I've never joined a forum before so apologies in advance for any mistakes, I know I'll get the hang of it eventually.
I had sent along with my initial requests for charges refund to A+L a schedule of charges downloaded from MSE, then I found this site and have since used the templates on here, I filed my claim with my local court and copy and pasted this as my POC ( ammended with my own details)

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM


1. The Claimant [has] [had] an account 1 ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 2 [and closed on or around 2 ]

2. During the period in which the Account [has been] [was] operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3 and any interest charged thereon;


b) Court costs;

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from [date when the money became owed to you] to [the date you are issuing the claim] of £ [amount] and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of [enter the daily rate of interest]


I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true


Signed: DON'T FORGET TO SIGN IT


Date:

The courts took 3 copies and when the claim was served on A+L, wrote to me telling me so, Wragge & co sent me an acknowledgment of service and of their intention to defend, then a day later sent me their defence( which looking at it, seems pretty standard after looking at others on here), I have copied and pasted the above and was going to send it along with an updated version of my account schedule (using the CAG spreadsheet as it gives a bit more detail than the one I've submitted) in responce to my "General Form of Judgement or Order" as detailed in 1st post.
Would that be what they want ?
Forgot to add - when Wragge sent their defence I did send them a further schedule of charges saying that I was surprised that their client did not send it to them as they have 3 copies, I heard nothing until receiving letter from the court.
I hope I haven't missed anything, thank-you again.

kind regards - jackie

Hi Jackie I am sure someone will help shortly. Did you phone the court for guidance?

I had sent along with my initial requests for charges refund to A+L a schedule of charges downloaded from MSE

This is the reason for the Direction, since the MSE calculator sheet does not show the type of charge, unless you write it in by hand in the blank column

I have copied and pasted the above and was going to send it along with an updated version of my account schedule (using the CAG spreadsheet as it gives a bit more detail than the one I've submitted) in responce to my "General Form of Judgement or Order" as detailed in 1st post.

Using the CAG s/s is much better. Since the court has given you the opportunity, you could if you want submit a fuller POC as well. See here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tml#post661174

How did you get on MC??

William

Hi William, sorry I didn't post, i'm doing some crazy shifts at the moment covering holiday, sickness etc,anyhow here's an update
I took your advice and phoned the courts, they said I wouldn't get a aq but to submit what it said on the court order, apparantly the origionals was not detailed enough (I thought the POC's were), I did this using the CAG schedule template which itemised each and every charge, the date, what the charge was for and the 8% interest(thanks squarebob), I used the link that Michael sent me for the further POC's ( really helpful) ammending it slightly with my details, I sent it off to the court yesterday recorded delivery and a copy to Wragges re the same so both parties should receive it today.
Thank-you so much for everyones help and advice I was really starting to panic, I don't know what to expect now I guess I'll hear from the courts or perhaps Wragges will just pay up with a nice £100 bonus payment to say sorry they've wasted my time (I wish), I'm doing a waking night shift tonight so I'll have a good look round the threads.
Will post summery of dates, correspondense etc.
Thank-you again, all the replies I've received have been really useful, will keep you posted

Regards to everyone - Jackie

HI Jacky,

Just a bit of encouragement. I received a general for of judgment or order the other day much along the same lines except the defendant (A&L) have to do the schedule setting out all claims of this type in England and Wales which have proceeded to final contested hearing and the outcome of such hearings, together with a shcedule of all such claims which it has compromised before final hearing, after proceedings have been issued. They have 14 days to object - hopefully not as it will be struck out. Makes a difference for them to have to do a bit of work for a change and not get it all their own way.

Oh! My court consider the authority of Mullen -v- Hackney London Borough Council (1997) 2 A11ER 906 relevant. My be investigating what thats all about.