Thread: Sev v MBNA

Firstly hello all, and congratulations to Whizzkid vs. Abbey...

I have an Abbey Account in much the same state, full of charges and ironically would have been in good order if those charges had not been levied.

MBNA... well, where do you start with these cherubs...

The other week, I had a phone call at work from my parents - 78, who were distressed to say the least.

They had had a call from MBNA and it went like this...

MBNA: Hello is that MR 'Sev' (MBNA knew that my parents shared the house with me, and asked for no further security or verification)

Dad : Yes it is

MBNA: I'm ringing about your credit card balance, (talked about missed payment for one month, and token payment for another) you owe £4,000, and would like to inform you that if you do not pay, we intend legal action / bailifs

... can you pay now.

Dad : But I don't have a credit card with you.

MBNA : Oh.... could you confirm your name and initials...


They knew damn well that it wasn't him. I don't know what else to do.

I rung their operations department, with whom i'd been liasing and they said that it must have been an error and were very sorry.

Then their pet debt collectors in new delhi - a company called Global Vantedge started ringing... at 8am, 12pm, 3pm and 8.40pm every day, monday through sunday... and christmas eve.

I can take care of myself, but the preying on vulnerable pensioners is detestable, and would love to find a way of making them pay.

Also, if you get any calls, or make a call, you can ask for a 'login ID' rather than a name - this is the individuals' terminal code.

if anyone has any ideas... i'd love to hear them.

I read that the Ombudsman can fine then up to 5k for harassement, this would clear my card. (it was 3k, but has had over 1k in charges thrust upon it) Can they be sued for the whole amount for what they did to my parents?

thanks

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I know, but I just wanted them to feel the pain.

It's more the hurt, I was thinking of writing to the papers... wouldn't that look good, for such a fine upstanding pillar of the finacial community

Hi Sev-

You are so Right in your description 'Devious Scum'

Firstly, I think that you should contact your local 'Trading Standards' who are part of the Office of Fair Trading and make a "COMPLAINT" (the number will be in your local phone book) against MBNA, because their actions would be considered as Harassment of a debtor.
The OFT have a Code of Guidance about how financial institutions should deal with debtors. It would appear from your post that MBNA have breached this Code.

I personally find MBNA's collection methods ' A Disgrace ' and they definately use extemely bad methods!

Last week when I was visiting my youngest daughter a university graduate, she related an incident about MBNA. Apparently MBNA telephoned her apartment enquiring about a neighbour, MBNA asked my daughter to put a note through her neighbours door to inform them that MBNA needed to speak to them.
Basically my daughter told MBNA to 'Take a Walk' and that their call to my daughter's apartment/home was an intrusion upon her privacy. She thankfully is not an MBNA customer!!!

MBNA are probably the most non consumer friendly credit card provider.

Make your complaint and try to back it up with the facts.

Kind regards

angry cat

Seems ok mate, see no harm in the email.

Right, got home just now, and there is a reply straight from Stuart Johnson, and it reads as follows:

Dear Mr Sev

I'm afraid that you have been mis-informed. If you wish to make your request under the Data Protection Act, you need to do so in writing, enclosing your payment and some identification. However, if you wish to make an informal request for information then I will be happy to help.

Please let me know which way you would prefer your request to be handled.

Kind regards,

Stuart.

Stuart Johnson
Customer Advocate Manager
MBNA Europe Bank
Tel: 01244 576317
Mailstop 474-089-01-02
Email: <mailto:stuart.johnson@mb na.com>

I have written back saying that if he wants to release them on an informal basis then that's fine with me...

lets see what happens!

Right, sorry for the delay in posting but here's the update to the saga...

on 12th July, I received a letter from Stuart Johnson saying that he has credited my account with £510.00 - exactly half of that which his list of charges say I have paid in the last six year since Oct 01.

I'm going to send a letter saying that this is no longer acceptable.

I cant even answer my mobile anymore due to the DCA's that still harrass and pester on behalf of these vermin. - Also I got a phone call from my parents who are once again under telephone seige thanks to the tactics of these oxygen thieves.

The letter also states that they disagree with the OFT verdict, and that the charges have always been fair.

I have been given another point of contact in the advocates office - Claire Pownall, customer advocate - 01244 672628

Will write a letter to MBNA as soon as I calm down, as at the moment it isn't to endearing!!

Yes Sev-
You make sure that you claim back all of the charges, plus interest-

Re the Harassment-
Make a formal COMPLAINT stating that you only wish to be contacted by letter and NOT by telephone - put that in writing to MBNA and send a copy to the DCA's.

Here is a suggested letter that you might try? obviously alter it, to suit you own situation.

Dear Scum--

"I am familiar with The Office of Fair Trading debt collection Guidance. The purpose of the guidance is intended to set out the type of behaviour the OFT considers to fall under the category of unfair business practices.

Physical and Psychological Harassment

*2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive

*2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

*d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as appropriate resulting in repetative and/or frequent contact by different parties

*e. Not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector.

*f. Pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so.

*h.Ignoring or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are DISPUTED and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

*i. Disclosing and/or threatening to disclose debt details to THIRD PARTIES unless legally entitled to do so.

DECEPTIVE AND/OR UNFAIR METHODS

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

*Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

I would also draw your attention to the Banking Code which sets out standards of good banking practice for financial institutions to follow when they are dealing with personal customers in the United Kingdom.

SECTION 13 LENDING

*13.6
We may give information to Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe if:

*The amount owed is NOT in dispute.

SECTION 14 financial difficulties

* 14.1
We will consider cases of Financial Difficulty sympathetically and positively.

I take the view that MBNA and it's instructed agents are Harassing me, together with the fact that you are obviously NOT considering my case sympathetically or positively, when MBNA is very well aware of the fact that; I am in Dispute.

I demand that you and your instructed agents, immediately desist from your unfair methods/practices against me.

Yours"

I hope this suggested letter will make MBNA sit up and think.

Kind thoughts

Angry Cat

Claire Pownall - now that's a name i haven't seen on these threads before, i wonder if they have just had a bit of a recruitment drive ? Can't imagine why they would need more staff

Right, i've calmed down enough and thrown this together...

Claire Pownall
Customer Advocate
Abbey Credit Card
Chester Business Park
Chester
CH4 9FB

Tuesday 1st August 2006

Dear Ms Pownall

Re Account No/Reference No: yada yada yada

Thank you for Mr Johnson’s recent communication regarding your position on bank charges and the recent OFT ruling.

I would also like to thank you for your offer of the goodwill payment credited to my account for the sum of £510.00

However, as your list of charges show, the total ammount in charges levied by yourselves is £1056.00, which leaves a sum of £546 outstanding. I feel justified in requesting this further sum in light of several factors:

Your responsibilities
First of all, I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.
I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.
Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

Your Tactics
As you know, you are not my only creditors for whom my loss of earnings has affected. However, you are the most aggressive and merciless in the tactics that you use in order to retrieve your monies. The psychological and mental strain that MBNA alone has forced me to endure is truly unforgivable.

You forwarded my detail onto a company called Global Vantedge – it was nearly two months after the first phone call before Global Vantedge ever sent me a letter announcing that they had been authorised by you to collect monies on your behalf, and I have never had a letter from yourselves indicating that the debt had been passed on to GVI. All I ever had was a standard letter indicating the repercussions of not paying. If I can draw your attention to one particularly despicable entry on a letter signed by a Mr Joe Sbriglia – Head of Customer Assistance:

“Prospective employers can also have access to the information”

I am fully aware of the repercussions of not paying, but the threat of compromising future employments as a scare tactic in inexcusable.

Global Vantedge called on average three times each day, unless a payment had been made on that day. On each occasion I asked them to stop as this was causing me considerable distress, and in the case of the daytime calls was actually detremental to my job. Continued telephone calls after requesting they refrain constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

In continuing to ring me after the request to stop, they are in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949.

Following three telephone calls on Christmas Eve, and one on Christmas morning I telephoned BT and asked if the number could be barred, apparently as an overseas telemarketing company, BT are powerless to stop the calls. A clever piece of planning on your part.

Global Vantedge do take the accolade or persistence, but I think that the first prize must go to your Irish call centre. I would like to give you some exapmles of their behaviour, which I take it, are fully sanctioned and approved of my yourselves:

Personal Attacks
“Mr Sev, it’s not my fault that you spent our companies money knowing that you can’t pay it back” – In defence to this, I would like to reiterate that as soon as I realised that my my earnings would be cut, and no means to pay were possible, it was I who telephoned your debt management team in order to seek help. It was also ‘not my fault’ that my company has suffered a downturn in orders and this has lead to nearly a one hundred percent drop in wages.

Telephone messages
“Oh hi, just calling about the conversation we had other day. Could you call me back on…” On responding to this vague message I was greeted by one of your Irish call centre staff, who proceeded to tell me that I had arrears on my account. No security was saught, merely my phone number flashing up on her monitor was obviously enough security.

Humiliation
You have a land line registered against the account xxxxx xxxxxx. This telephone number is that of my parents’ property. How dare one of your operatives call that number, asking only for a Mr Sev. Based on the information given him, that it was indeed Mr Sev, without further security, prcedded to enlighten him as to the ammount owed and that court action was inevitable if he didn’t pay.

The damage you have done to the relationship and trust between myself and my parents has been catastrophic. And yet you still telephone and disrespect their wishes to not be communicated. I would ask that this number be removed from your records. I am willing to take whatever you wish to throw at me, but I will not have you intimidate and psychologically batter two elderly people who now do not want to even pick up their telephone. How dare you.

My only crime has been to have the misfortune of loss of earnings, and as I have said in each and every correspondence, I have every intention of repaying my debt to you as soon as I can. But, I cannot pay you with what I do not have.


Yours faithfully



Mr Sev

cc.
Michael Rhodes – Chief executive officer
Donna Pumfrey – Solicitor
Customer Satisfaction Department


Oh and one other... Kenneth D. Lewis -Chairman, CEO and President of the Bank of America.
Bank of America have just taken over MBNA in the USA and so given the speed of airmail these days...


Angry Cat, i'll work your letter into mine - it's already a two pager, looks like we might as well make it four!

Surreyscouse, I bet your right, that's why I thought i'll just let it hit home like a rank dose of VD
I'll keep you posted!

Sev,

I know you are quite rightly frustrated mate, but don't waste any more time sending letters to the states. I had a conversation with them months ago and they told me that they will kep no record of my complaint as that is what the english operation is for.

What i did in view of this was a constant email bombardment of Shane Flynn who was CEO at the time and eventually he emailed me back. Try that approach with michael.rhodes@mbna.com or even better (and persevere with this) is call him on 01244 672040 and try between 12 - 2 pm when his pa is out and he answers the phone himself. I say persevere as he is not there everyday obviously

Got this phone message left for me yesterday.

I have included a full transcript in the letter a couple of posts up, and will be posting them on the weekend so that they're there on all three desks monday morning.

"I’d like to draw your attention to the most recent message from your Irish call centre, and it goes as follows – word for word. I have this recorded:

Thursday 2rd August 15.38
“This is a call for Sev, this is david here calling from the Abbey national, we have left four messages for you now in the last five days, and you havent responded to any of them.

The situation is that your arrangement to pay 46 pound now going to fall off the credit card, and its looking likely that we wont be able to put you on an agreement again, which means that your account will default and your debt sold off.

What I’m asking you to do is give me a call on 01244 673093, so that we can arrange a payment on your credit card to prevent this happening, and so we can keep your business, and prevent any debt collectors coming about. Once again the number is 01244 673093, 01244 673093. Call as soon as you get this. “

In my defence to his comments, and to recap what I have already talked about in this letter:

The first Paragraph – Yes I have ignored messages, but there were not four of them. I am paralysed with fear at picking up a telephone now. I am scared to talk to your staff. I have no longer the mental fortitude to resist or try to reason with your staff.

The second paragraph – I agreed to the payment of 46 pounds as this was the only way of stopping the bombardment of telephone calls. I owe mint credit card £2000, and they offered to put forward a payment of five pounds a month – I didn’t have to ask. Your staff just kept telling me how I would face court action. If you were as honourable as MINT a realistic figure of 10 pounds would be offered. But this would admit compassion on your part. And I understand that you cannot show weakness.

The Third Paragraph - IF I call this David, he will persist in making me part with money which I do not have. I have paid ten pounds this month, and depending on whether I have work next month, perhaps I could make more. – Something I know will not be to your agreement.

Also his words about keeping my custom! – After what I have been through, and more importantly the seige that you have laid at the feet of two elderly individuals, what gives you the right to dare tell me that you value my custom and wish to keep my business?

And I am fully aware of what happens when you unleash your Indian Debt collecting agency.


Due to your actions, my work has deteriorated to the point of disciplinaries. My mental stability is fragile, and the relationship that I shared with my family has been destroyed. You have stripped me of any dignity and belief in compassion and decency. I can honestly say that suicide is an option which now seems more appealing than attempting to carry on.

And all for what?, coming to you in the first instance and asking for help."


I got called in to my managers' office today. Work have noticed that my standards have dropped, and that my phone's going off alot. If it doesn't improve, then I can look forward to a pleasant meeting with an hr officer present.

Whats the point. Really. What is the point anymore.