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Hi all - hoping someone may be able to clarify a couple of issues I have with my claim.
Claim started 23 May with a letter asking for statements (template from money saving expert.com) Received these within a week, so using the calculator on that site, worked out the charge amount of £2182 + £239.20 interest.
Wrote on 14 June the folloowing letter (again from moneysaving expert) together with a schedule of charges:
Dear Sir or Madam,
Re. Account number: xxxxxxxx
I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my account. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to The Royal Bank of Scotland.
The charges total £2182, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money I have calculated £239.20interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.
I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £2421.20. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.
I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.
Yours faithfully,
moo7777
Received the standard reply from Sandy Watt - thanks for letter/considering claim/respond within 6-7 weeks etc. I then found this site and the templates seem different/better.
As the 14 days are up from my first letter, I now need to send the lba - my questions are:
1 Does it matter that I listed the interest in the first letter (this site seems to suggest that you don't) 2 I have not asked for T+Cs yet - should I do at this stage? 3 Is there anything else I need to include on my LBA that I have missed/is wrong on my first letter? 4 I was going to adapt the template for LBA to include things that are on this site's first template not included in my first letter - does this make sense? 5 I made an error on my first list of charges - one charge of £30 I claimed was £20 referral/£10 royalties account charge - should I admit this in the letter and enclose a new version £10 lighter?
Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give
In my first letter asking for refund of charges I included the interest at 8% in my schedule of charges but only asked for the basic sum to be returned - I have today been offered the full sum back plus about 4.6% extra which I will accept .
See below link for T&Cs altho you can only ask to be sent a copy
Your letter is fine, straight to the point.
Don't think it matters, as long as you get across the message that you will not give in.
Yes you should correct any mistakes or errors, they might be held against you if you don't correct them first.
Hi - thanks for this - will get on and draft lba - can you confirm that I don't need to ask RBS for copy of T+Cs as I can get from this site?
Best
Moo
As far as I know, you will only need T&Cs if you are actually going to court and need to be aware of the relevant sections as regards "penalty" charges.
Just send your letter requesting your charges back making sure there are no errors and with a schedule of the charges including date, reason for charge and amount. Don't claim for service fees like Royalties monthly fee.
RBS, like every other bank, are inundated with demands so they will not be up to speed but just keep to your timetable as you set it out. They will give in eventually.
Patience is needed but you will win if you stick to it.
“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”
I have now drafted a letter before action, which includes sections from templates on this site that I feel were missing from my first letter.
Any comments/alterations before I send on Monday would be really appreciated.........
thanks in advance for any help
moo
moo7777
etc
etc
Sandy Watt
Customer Relations Support Unit
Retail Support
The Cornerstone
60 South Gyle Crescent
Edinburgh
EH12 9WF
30 June 2007
LETTER BEFORE ACTION
YOUR REF: xxxxxxxxx
Dear Sir/Madam,
ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx
I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond adequately to my letter dated 14 June 2007.
I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to consumer regulations.
If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.
Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.
I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.
The charges total £xxxx, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money I have calculated £xxxxinterest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award. I am enclosing an amended copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of 14 June 2007. The schedule enclosed with this letter is an amended version of that sent on 14 June. The charge on 18 Nov 2002 should be £20 not £30 as on the original schedule. My claim has therefore reduced by £10.
I require repayment in full of this money . I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. I will accept payment without interest should you settle within the next 14 days.
Whilst acknowledging your letter dated 29 June 2007 and the contents therein I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.
If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.
I additionally hereby request that you forward a copy of the terms and conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those terms and conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6(c), and should you fail to provide them, this will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.
Your letter looks ok but where did you get the address from? The street No. is 56 and the postcode EH12 9LE, I suspect you have used the freepost code. That said, it will get there, hopefully.
Did you send it Recorded? Not always necessry but worth the extra expense to be able to track your mail online.
Good luck and with a bit pf patience you will get your money back, maybe not all you're claiming for by way of interest but you should get your basic charges returned.
“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”
2 weeks have passed since my LBA sent to Sandy Watt and nothing from RBS at all (although letter was only delivered 12 days ago - it seems some people have had success with 1 further letter before court, which I have adapted for my situation. I am thinking of sending this as a final letter before starting court action in 7 days time.........if any one has a chance to look through to check/comment, I would be grateful.
Thanks
Moo7777
Moo7777
Etc
etc
Dear Mr Watt
I refer to my letter before action dated 2 July 2007 and am disappointed that I have not received a response from you.
This may be because you are under the impression that I will not issue a claim against you for the return the unlawful bank charges debited from my account.
I am writing to inform you that this will be the next stage unless I receive full payment in the next 7 days of the £2172 detailed in my previous letter to you. I am once more enclosing a schedule of these charges with this letter.
However, please accept this correspondence in accordance with my duty under the Civil Procedure Rules to continue to pursue a settlement without the need to invoke the time of the courts
If you do not intend to defend your charges in court, but hoping that I will "just go away" I should to point out that this will not happen and you will incur further costs against you.
Take note that I will draw the Court’s attention to the fact that you have not made any attempts at settlement in accordance with the overriding objectives of CPR. Furthermore I will submit this letter to the Court as further evidence of your intransigence with my case despite my attempts at settlement and the settling by your company of all other similar claims to date.
Alternatively, in accordance with the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules I would like to give you the opportunity to settle this issue without the need to take the time of the Courts. My claim is for £2172. If you could ensure that this sum is paid into my bank account within seven days I will inform the court that this matter is settled.
If you fail to do this or respond in any way within the next 7 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.
Please do not waste any further time with something you do not intend to defend.
May I suggest before sending your letter that you try sending an email - address is below - just a little informal "gee up" note to show that you're still around, then if you get no response to that within the next day or two, send your letter.
I refer to my letter before action dated 2 July 2007 and as of today I have not received a response from you.
My letter was delivered to you on 4 July 2007.
I will therefore allow you till 18th July to respond.
May I emphasise that if I do not hear from you within this time, I will continue my proceedings without further notice.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
moo7777
received the following reply
Dear moo7777
On checking our database, I note that your claim was received here on 14
June 2007, there is no note regarding any further correspondence.
Please be advised that, under FSA rules, we have 8 weeks in which to issue
our response to your claim.
We will respond within that period.
Sandy Watt
thinking now what to do........
his mail suggests that he has not received my LBA dated 2 July - is this delaying/confusing tactics? (I know it was deliered as I have seen the sighned for docu,net on royal mail.)
I will obviously ignore the timescale......but.....
Should I follow up by email or post?
Should I send LBA again? or email them proof of deliery?
Will think, but if anyone has any ideas, plz let me know.
I suggest you either scan your letter of 2 Jul & the proof of delivery and send them by email to Sandy or you copy & paste that letter to an email and send that - I reckon that poor Sandy and chums are up to their necks in claims and quite honestly can't cope and it is the middle of the holiday season so they will be short staffed - I would do as above and wait to see what ensues - hopefully they will offer you a percentage of your claim within a week or two for you to accept as part payment of full claim, At least that is my experience - and as I write this I have just received an email from one of Sandy's colleagues to inform me that my account has been credited with my money - woo hoo!!
“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”
All sent off by email/attachments (copied below for interest - thought I might as well keep the pressure on......!) so will wait till end of business on 18 July before next follow up.
Yanni - Don't spend it all at once.... and have one for me!
Moo7777
Dear Mr Watt
For your information and further to my letter dated 14 June, I sent a letter
before action to you, which was dated 2 July 2007.
This was sent recorded delivery and was signed for on 4 July.
I am attaching a copy of the letter sent, together with a print out from the
royal mail website track and trace which proves it was delivered to you.
As this letter was delivered and signed for on 4th July, I still require you
to take action as outlined therein, prior to July 18.
I went to my branch to check if my money had been credited to my account and sure enough they had credited my account by £2507, less £15 in sums of £5 X 3 which apparently was for my statement copies - they've made a mistake about that, so hopefully they'll credit me with £5 - also they had debited my account with £39+ in interest so I will contest that - but over all I am so chuffed as a year ago I was owe RBS over £6500 - the residue I am contesting as a missold loan and is in the hands of the fos - so all you peeps out there take heart - from asking RBS on the 10th of May to gies ma dosh back pal to Independence Day, Sandy Watt and chums came good and coughed up.
For the record I was claiming back £2395 back 5 years from 21 July 2006, when RBS unilaterally and without prior notice closed my current account - they have however reimbursed me for £2507 less about £65 for charges and interest, some of which I will challenge, but I am sooo happy to get back money which I knew in my heart had been" stolen" from me but didn't know I could get it back, but thanx to CAG I have won it back.
So to all of you who are having doubts, follow the guidelines set out, persist, keep to the time schedules because you will win - the banks are wrong, they know they're wrong and we, the wee peeps have them by the short and curlies - I hope the above makes sense but I've been sampling some wines from Argentina & Australia by way of celebration
ps sorry moooo, I have realised I've hijacked your thread to celebrate my win, sorry
“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”
cool news - hope the wine was good.........and the head this morning.......?!
no probs using my thread - it's good to have news like that
in the meantime, I have received the following mail from Sandy Watt:
Dear moo7777
All mail for delivery to this Unit is dealt with by a 'central mail point',
this includes Recorded Delivery, these are signed for by the staff
ain that area.
As already mentioned below, we will respond to your claim within the
timescales, as set by the FSA.
Should you decide to action within that period, then that is your decision.
Regards
Sandy Watt
Everything I have read on this forum suggests that I should stick to my timescale, so will send an adapted letter in post nine above, tomorrow at close of business.
2 questions
1 - is it OK to continue with that letter and court if they are saying they haven't recieved my lba yet? Or would the court look on it, that it had been delivvered, so why can't they find it?
2 - if the FSA have set these timescales, how come it is OK for me to set my own? IS it because by the time the court case will be well in action, they need to have made their decision anyway, so it just pushes it along more quickly?
I suppose I am worried that court proceedings are imminent and feels a bit nerve-wracking.......
Will post again when I put up the letter that I send.
I can only speak from my own experience but I would be inclined to hang fire until you get a response - just keep up the pressure but not too much as I believe they will pay out in their own time and as Sandy has said they do have 8 weeks to respond by FSA rules - as I have posted on my own thread, my claim took from 10th May to 4th July, just under 8 weeks and very little hassle, just a couple of emails to Sandy to remind them I was still alive. I honestly don't think going to court would have been any quicker altho my claim was over the limit for small claims in Scotland so court wasn't really an option for me without going to a lawyer.
I did threaten, sorry advise, RBS that I had taken my complaint to the fos which I have, altho have since asked FOS to delete my complaint over the default fees.
Altho I curse RBS as an organisation, everybody that I have dealt with at The Forthstone has been nothing but friendly and helpful.
“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”
The problem is weighing it up though. Yes you could wait and see what progress RBS make in due course, but what if they don't? You might wait the 8 weeks, not hear from them and THEN have to file a court claim. Only might.....
The fos expect a complaint to be dealt with within 8 weeks and allow 8 weeks to pass before they get involved. That doesn't make it the rule which is why we allow 28 days (why wait 8 weeks?).
I wouldn't worry about taking this to court - you have your proof you sent it so how can they argue with it? It is not your fault it has gone astray.
Decision time! You need to make the call, either step up and file a claim, add your 8% and wait for a payout, or hold your horses and wait for a payout. You should get a response either way, just depends on how you do it.
If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know
moo7777 vs rbs
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Originally Posted by moo7777
