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Hi, can anyone help? I am a disabled driver and have a 'Blue Badge'. I parked in a loading bay near to the shops (displaying the blue badge and clock disk) and when I returned I had been given a pcn.
Now, I am not disputing that I parked in a loading bay BUT I am upset that the ticket shows that the trafic warden must have observed me parking and did not warn me.
Also the ticket states that I 'Parked in a loading Place during restricted hours without loading'. I have looked and there are no signs that give any indication as to what the resticted hours are. The only sign is a small sign on the wall saying 'Loading only' and on the road the same words. I was also wondering if the fact the the sign is not at the kerb might be another way to fight this. I have already Challenged the PCN but they say I must pay unless I can prove I was Loading.
I know I am being stubborn about this, but I only parked their to buy some magazines at WHSmiths. I couldn't park in the disabled bays as they were fenced off and any other disabled bays were either full or too far away.
I have rambled on a bit but if anyone has managed to get to to here then can you help.
While you understanably feel aggrieved about the ticket, maybe you should look at it from another view. I used to be a multi drop parcel driver, and quite often was unable to use the specified loading bays for deliveries due to people like yourself, instead having to park illegally myself, or, more often than not, blocking in people like you while I carried out my work, and receive the abuse for doing so. Now think how you would feel if you went to use a disabled space and found someone like myself parked there. So if you weren't loading/unloading, you shouldn't have been there. Sorry for being so harsh, but a blue badge doesn't give you the right to park where you want.
I hope you may be pleasantly suprised to discover that there may well be an exemption for disabled drivers when it comes to loading bays
I know goods vehicles can technically load in disabled bays (although obviously frowned upon) - therefore I see no reason why the exemption should not work the other way round.
You would need to check the relevant Traffic Order + the loading articles (preferably all the articles)
you can phrase the request along the lines of i request disclosure of this evidence under Civil Procedure rules blah blah it makes you sound like you know what your talking about & makes the councils nervous
In mid 2003 Sunderland City Council became aware after a complaint by a member of the public that Blue Badge Holders may be exempt from being issued with Penalty Charge Notices issued in Loading Bays. The Council sought advice on the legality of Blue Badge Holders parking in loading bays.
Counsel's advice revealed that Regulation 8 of the Local Authorities Traffic Orders (Exemption for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000 provides an exemption for Blue Badge Holders.
Similar advice was received from the Department for Transport.
Based on that advice it was decided to issue refunds to Blue Badge Holders who had parked in loading bays. (The offence is a Code 25 and it does not distinguish between Blue Badge and non Blue Badge Holders
you can phrase the request along the lines of i request disclosure of this evidence under Civil Procedure rules blah blah it makes you sound like you know what your talking about & makes the councils nervous
Much easier to use the Freedom of Information Act 2000:
1. - (1) Any person making a request for information to a public authority is entitled-
(a) to be informed in writing by the public authority whether it holds information of the description specified in the request, and
(b) if that is the case, to have that information communicated to him.
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Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.
If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.
I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big
oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the
Consumer Action Group.
How pleased would you be if I parked in a Blue Badge bay to go buy some magazines? Being Disabled does not give you the excuse for ignoring parking restrictions. You can park on pay and displays and yellow lines as well as blue badge bays yet this bay was the only free spot to park in walking distance of the shops?
BUT I am upset that the ticket shows that the trafic warden must have observed me parking and did not warn me
You have passed a driving test and I assume you can read so why should you expect people to remind you where and how to park? You should have received a booklet with your badge this clearly explains that you cannot park in loading bays. The reason for this is that BB holders can park on yellow lines and not leave any room for delivery vehicles to unload.
Totally agree with green and mean. And just remember, while you're parked illegally, should yor car get damaged in any way, its your fault. When I was doing multidrop in a 7.5t, it was a regular occurance to remove people's wing mirrors, catch bumpers, etc, because of people like you parking in the loading bays, causing problems to get a truck out.
What utter nonsense! Just because someone is parked where they shouldn't be doesn't excuse someone else driving carelessly and hitting the parked car. I hoped you stopped and gave your details when you hit vehicles in these circumstances, because if you didn't it's called failing to stop after an accident. Two wrongs do not make a right!
And just remember, while you're parked illegally, should yor car get damaged in any way, its your fault.
Absolute rubbish. Your car does not become a free-for-all target for damage merely because you are unlawfully parked.
When I was doing multidrop in a 7.5t, it was a regular occurance to remove people's wing mirrors, catch bumpers, etc, because of people like you parking in the loading bays, causing problems to get a truck out.
If this was deliberate, it is criminal damage. If this was accidental, then you would need to leave a note of your details. Failing to do so is classed as 'Failing to stop' - another criminal offence.
At any time that I damaged someones car, my details were left. On one occasion the damage was witnessed by a police officer who assured me that due to the other vehicle being parked illegally, it was not my fault. If you are saying it is acceptable to park illegally, please give me the solution to another problem I've encountered. Driving 7.5t truck along a street, find my way blocked by a car parked on double yellows, and as such can't get past. What am I meant to do? Block the street and wait for the inconsiderate git to come back and move his car? great, so I have to cause an obstruction just so I don't damage the car.
Sorry, but if you want to take the risk and park illegally then suffer the consequences. If you expect people like myself who drive for a living to put our working day on hold just so you can park easily, not really our problem if the car gets damaged.
Remember, if you'd parked where you're supposed to, your car wouldn't get damaged. And if it does, don't spit your dummy out and start throwing blame when it's your actions that caused the problem in the 1st place.
At any time that I damaged someones car, my details were left. On one occasion the damage was witnessed by a police officer who assured me that due to the other vehicle being parked illegally, it was not my fault. If you are saying it is acceptable to park illegally, please give me the solution to another problem I've encountered. Driving 7.5t truck along a street, find my way blocked by a car parked on double yellows, and as such can't get past. What am I meant to do? Block the street and wait for the inconsiderate git to come back and move his car? great, so I have to cause an obstruction just so I don't damage the car.
So you chose to drive on by knowing that your actions will cause damage? That is criminal damage. I'm not saying it's acceptable to park illegally but then your actions are not acceptable either.
Originally Posted by kregrs
Sorry, but if you want to take the risk and park illegally then suffer the consequences. If you expect people like myself who drive for a living to put our working day on hold just so you can park easily, not really our problem if the car gets damaged.
It is your problem if the you damage the car because you have chosen to drive on knowing there is a possibility the car will get damaged but you drove on regardless.
Originally Posted by kregrs
Remember, if you'd parked where you're supposed to, your car wouldn't get damaged. And if it does, don't spit your dummy out and start throwing blame when it's your actions that caused the problem in the 1st place.
Cars get damaged when they are properly parked. My car was legally parked one day when some moron in a 7.5t lorry hit it. He didn't have the decency to stop, he no doubt had a similar attitude towards other motorists as you.
And for the third time, whereas someone parking illegally might well contribute to their car getting damaged, but its your actions that are ultimately responsible for damaging the car, and if they are deliberate then it is beyond the realms of an accident.
I would also point out that where a Council is operating a decriminalised parking regime, it is not possible to park illegally. No crime is committed by parking.
So its legal to park on double yellows? Car parked on double yellows, preventing larger vehicles from passing. So while the driver is off doing whatever they're doing, you'd expect the driver of a larger vehicle to wait for them to get back or turn round, though thats not always possible. Say whatever you wish, I've been told numerous times that I'm not responsible for the damage. I'll take a Traffic Officers word over yours anyday.
If I chose to drive on and the car got damaged, it would be because I had no other choice, I wouldn't have been in a position to turn round or take another route, Its been on those occasions that its been witnessed by police officers. And for your information, I've tried getting past without hitting the offending car, but when it a choice between hitting the mirror of a car parked correctly or one parked incorrectly, its the incorrectly parked car that suffers the damage.
I'd love to have been able to sit around and wait for the driver to come and move their car but with anything upto 60 drops on board, O never had the time.
So its legal to park on double yellows? Car parked on double yellows, preventing larger vehicles from passing. So while the driver is off doing whatever they're doing, you'd expect the driver of a larger vehicle to wait for them to get back or turn round, though thats not always possible. Say whatever you wish, I've been told numerous times that I'm not responsible for the damage. I'll take a Traffic Officers word over yours anyday.
Good, you carry on as you are and I'll look forward to the day when you have to answer to a magistrates court for your actions.
Originally Posted by kregrs
If I chose to drive on and the car got damaged, it would be because I had no other choice, I wouldn't have been in a position to turn round or take another route, Its been on those occasions that its been witnessed by police officers. And for your information, I've tried getting past without hitting the offending car, but when it a choice between hitting the mirror of a car parked correctly or one parked incorrectly, its the incorrectly parked car that suffers the damage.
I'd love to have been able to sit around and wait for the driver to come and move their car but with anything upto 60 drops on board, O never had the time.
So you have deliberately aimed at a car which in your opinion is illegally parked? That is criminal damage in my book.(edited)
(edit) He/she has obviously made up thier mind that they are morally right to behave in any way they see fit. The comments regarding being told that it is ok to damage an 'illeagally' parked car are laughable at best, but show a worrying view (edit) , but believe it is actually true.
Another sad example of (edit) delivery man creating a bad impression of this vital part of society.
At what point did I say that I'd aimed at anyone? If you're inconsiderate enough to park where you shouldn't, you take the risk. Or are double yellows and other parking restrictions placed where they are for fun? To answer your question, I don't tailgate either.
(edit) I've been in that position quite a few times and as yet not been summonsed for my actions. Until I am, i'll believe what I have been told.
perhaps you should re-read my post, I have only damaged the offending vehicle where there has been no other choice, ie, unable to turn around or take another route. Faced with the choice of trying to reverse back to find somewhere to turn, often with a queue of traffic behind, or attempt to negotiate my way past, I'll take the 2nd choice. If that offends you, tough sh*t basically, park where you're supposed to and we'll both be happy.
(edit) I have worked for agencies at various different couriers and have never received a complaint about my driving. In fact, where I have damaged another vehicle in that situation I have always reported it to the company at the end of the day, and been backed up by them that my actions have been ok. But I suppose that all these various companies, with their years of shared experience and knowledge are totally wrong in your view. So I'll believe what I am told, until proven that I and them are wrong.
"but when it a choice between hitting the mirror of a car parked correctly or one parked incorrectly, its the incorrectly parked car that suffers the damage. "
Originally Posted by kregrs
(edit) I've been in that position quite a few times and as yet not been summonsed for my actions. Until I am, i'll believe what I have been told.
It's only a matter of time (edit)
Originally Posted by kregrs
perhaps you should re-read my post, I have only damaged the offending vehicle where there has been no other choice, ie, unable to turn around or take another route. Faced with the choice of trying to reverse back to find somewhere to turn, often with a queue of traffic behind, or attempt to negotiate my way past, I'll take the 2nd choice. If that offends you, tough sh*t basically, park where you're supposed to and we'll both be happy.
So in other words you are admitting to causing criminal damage because you know if you go through that you are going to cause damage, but you carry on regardless. The definition of criminal damage is causing damage to property either deliberately or recklessly, it being reckless where you carry on with your actions even though you know it will result in damage.
Originally Posted by kregrs
If we're going to make assumptions about each other here, I'm assuming you're the type of jobsworth moron who can't bear to not have the last word and is always right, regardless. I'm also guessing you sympathise with the OP, and that because he has a blue badge he can park where he wants and if we don't like it, tough, he has a blue badge. End of story.
Usually when someone resorts to insults it's a sure sign that their own point of view has been discredited and is worthless.
Disabled Drivers and Loading bays
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Originally Posted by Recycler
