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Hi all. I've got an interesting question I need some guidance on....
Recently I sold my very specialist 2nd car. However, prior to actually completing a sale, I had a prior sale fall thru'. This is what happened: After a couple of days speaking to an interested person, he came to look at the car on a Friday afternoon. He wasn't sure if he wanted to commit at the time and went home to think about it. Whilst at my house discussing the car & a possible deal, he asked if he gave me a deposit, would I remove all internet adverts and stop anyone from coming to look at the car. I said I would, but that he would have to understand that to take the car off sale, the deposit would be non-refundable and should he pull out of the sale the deposit covers my wasted time, trouble etc. He was happy with this.
Anyway, he went home and after about 6hrs, called me to say he wanted the car. We discussed a £500 non-refundable deposit again (which was less than 2% of the agreed sale price) and once more I stressed that I would be happy to pull all the ads and stop anyone else looking at the car, but if he pulled out he couldn't expect the money back. He agreed and transfered £500 over the internet to my wife's bank account (they both banked with HSBC so the transaction was instant). I sent him an e-mail confirming the transaction and again stated non-refundable deposit in the text. He responded to this e-mail (by way of another written e-mail) thanking me for outlining our agreement.
I then sent e-mails to all the internet sites it was advertised on to ask for the ads to be removed and deleted it myself where I could. I also called a guy who was due to travel here and look at the car on Sunday and told him the car was sold, as well as telling a couple of other interested people who called / e-mailed me subsequently that the car was sold.
On the following Monday (evening), the buyer called me to say that he was having second thoughts. On Tuesday lunch time he then called again to say he was definately going to pull out and could he have his deposit back. I said no and he asked if he could have half of it back. I refered to the fact the deposit was non-refundable and that I could have lost sales from any of the people I had put off since Friday night (about 6+ people over the 5 days) when he asked me to remove the car from sale. He wasn't having this saying that he'd been upfront with me and could have waited weeks, stringing me along all the way, before pulling out at the last minute. I said that was irrelevant, we had a deal (discussed twice, confirmed in writing, which he accepted in writing) and he broke it, therefore, forfitting his deposit.
Anyway, some 5-odd weeks later, he's called me saying he wants his money back and if he doesn't get it, he's going to take me to small claims court!
I've spent the evening trying to find advice on-line and the best I've found is this on the CAB web site:
Deposits
If you put a deposit on a vehicle and later decide not to buy it, you will not be able to get the money back unless the seller agreed that the deposit was returnable if you changed your mind, for example, after having an independent inspection done.cel a contract to buy a second hand car from a dealer, see Secondhand cars, in Consumer Fact Sheets.
It look pretty clear to me, but it's the only line of text I've managed to find anywhere and I'd really like some more advice. I'll ring the CAB today and see what they say, before I call the guy back.
It's a case or principals now and I don't see why after the 5 wasted days and grief over the phone with him, that I should give him anything. If it was a transaction with a trader and the same happened, I'm damn sure they wouldn't give anything either. He's been a complete.... well, you get the picture.
I'd like to get as much advice as possible on this. If it was to go to small claims, I'd like to know what his chances of getting anything are and if he should win, do I then get a CCJ against me (ruining my credit history, etc). Also, if I could counter claim for breech of contract....
Bascially, I want to know if it's worth fighting this or not.
If anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear from you.
Re: Legal Advice Req'd - Deposits on 2nd Hand Cars
I do have one small question, did the buyer at the time sign anything to state that the depoist was NON-REFUNDABLE or was this just hear say on both sides, i know you state that e.mails were passed between you both at the time, regarding the money you hold. But was anything signed ?
I can surely relate to your frustration at the sale falling through, looking at the thread you state, that you took the car from advertising companies, told other possible buyers that it had been sold etc etc
What costs have been ocurred due to such, by re-moving the for sale advert? does it amount to the £500 you are holding?
You state your NOT a motor dealer, and just a private seller, i would think the rules and regulations differ quite differantly between the two, you might want to look more into such before contacting the lost buyer again, as you could get into a tangle over this if the lost buyer gets dirty, so to speak. I would on a personnal note, add the costs that have been occurred, and deduct that sum from the £500 plus say 20% of whats left for your time, and refund the remainder.
And put it down to a lesson learnt, i would'nt in future take part payment, only full monies on completion of sale.
!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor
7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager
4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )
Partner... 23 Years social services depts
All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.
Re: Legal Advice Req'd - Deposits on 2nd Hand Cars
Hi.
No, nothing was physically signed, because the deal was done over the phone. However, the e-mail "recepit" clearly stated non-refundable and his reply to that very mail said "Thanks for writing and formalising our agreement......". As such, it was definately expressed and agreed to.
Since writing this post, I have spoken to Consumer Direct (via the CAB) and they have said that this e-mail is enough to demonstrate his acceptance of the terms and that he has no legal leg to stand on (so to speak). They've also said, I could counter claim for breech of contract (as we do have a written agreement).
With regards to costs incurred, it's more the lost time over getting the car sold and my wasted time, which are harder to put a value on. I was considering saying to him, "here's £150 now that's the most you're going to get so naff off", but I don't want to give him the satisfaction, after all the grief he's given me (agro phone calls, texts, e-mail).
I'll continue to look into it before I respond to the latest text and e-mail he's sent me!!
Re: Legal Advice Req'd - Deposits on 2nd Hand Cars
Yes i belief he is shooting himself in the foot with responding to your e.mails and sending you mail, i take it your saving the e.mails etc for any future referances, as i said, the choice is yours whether to offer part refund, just to get him off your back and to save any further contact with him, only thing that i'm uncertain about is the nothing signed bit, he could state that he hasn't sent you any mail, and that it is friends or brother etc doing such to wind you up, hence nothing to do with him. i know this is all thoughts, but i always think deeper in such matters, maybe too deep on my part hehehehe
Hope you have now managed to sell your motor and in time put this bad selling experience behind you.
!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor
7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager
4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )
Partner... 23 Years social services depts
All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.
Legal Advice Req'd - Deposits on 2nd Hand Cars
so the transaction was instant). I sent him an e-mail confirming the transaction and again stated non-refundable deposit in the text. He responded to this e-mail (by way of another written e-mail) thanking me for outlining our agreement.
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