landlords libel

[agamemnon]

I have a very strange lease and there is no maintenance company or service charges for the flat. If work needs to be done then it is down to the owners of the flats to make sure the work is done. Ever since moving in I have had letters from the landlord asking for £xxx on account for repairs or maintenance on the block, I have replied along with the others owners asking for a breakdown of costs or a copy of a quote to show where our money will be spent. As he cant or won’t provide details I won’t pay him money on account until I am happy that my money wont be wasted. Also ever since I have disputed the payments and work needing to be done the landlord has not cashed a single cheque for my ground rent.
This hasn’t caused me to much of a problem but now I have applied to get a loan secured on the property. The finance company has written to the leaseholder to ascertain that I am up to date on ground rent and maintenance charges. I have informed the company that they would not get a good response from the lease holder and true to form he has sent them a letter stating that I owe him at a glance in excess of £800 in unpaid ground rent and in respect of penalty notices. He also states in his letter that I have refused to make any payment on account for work needing to be done in the block.
I have kept copies of all letters sent to him showing that I am happy to pay for any work that needs doing but only after seeing a quote and then getting a builder to do a quote on my behalf to show that my money won’t be wasted.
Due to this letter I have been refused finance.
I am fully aware that the leaseholder can’t by law impose extra penalties due to him not cashing my ground rate cheques or claiming that I haven’t sent him payments, and he hasn’t taken me to court so these penalty notices he writes about cant actually exist
The questions I have are
1: do I have a good case for suing the leaseholder for libel, and including in the claim the full amount that I had applied for in a loan?
2: (not really down to this forum but) could I slap a Data Protection Act on the finance company to see if they have passed on a copy of this letter to the underwriters for the loan, and if it shows that they have passed on this information then could I also sue them for libellously passing on untrue information?
3: possibly not able to but if the loan company has passed a copy of this letter onto the underwriters then could I slap a Data Protection Act onto the underwriters to see if they have used this letter to affect my credit rating and if so then how far can I pursue the possibility of claiming for libel.

[StoneLaughter]

Forget the Data Protection Act - check your own credit report with Experian (www.experian.co.uk) - it's £2 for a printed report, or a thirty day free trial online followed by a subscription fee thereafter.

Regarding your landlord, I will defer advice to someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

agamemnon,I am very sorry to read about your problem with your landlord.

I would like to clarify a few points and being very blunt with you:

1.A landlord could eventually forfeit a lease on the grounds of non payment of charges and ground rent and so this is why you were refused the finance.

2.No finance company would secure monies against a property that has a leaseholder in default of charges and ground rent.

3.The refusal of finance has nothing to do with the fact that you are being truthful and have good intentions regarding payment.

4.In the eyes of the persons/credit committee who decide to grant you a loan against your property view the fact that you have not paid the charges and ground rent translates to mean that you do not want to pay rather than having a dispute over payment.

5.Personally,I do not think you would get anywhere with suing your landlord for libel etc because the fact that you have not paid him is not inaccurate - you are withholding payment.If you remedy the situation and he still gives out a bad reference you would be in a much better position to sue - this is my 2p worth.
My advice remedy the situation and apply for a loan again.Then decide what to do about the landlord at that particular time.

6.You can find out the information held about you with the finance company by sending it the Data Protection Act request with the statutory fee of £10.

7.In my view your credit rating would not be affected because the non-payments to the landlord would not be reported to the credit reference agencies unless the landlord hired a debt collection agency or took you to court for the non-payment of charges and ground rent.To put your mind at rest,do as Stonelaughter suggested and send the credit reference agency £2 together with your addresses over the last 6 years.You can do this online if you wish.

MOVING ON...

In my view,unless you come to an amicable agreement (or court action at the last resort) with the landlord I can see two possible scenarios:

a.If you wanted to sell the flat to refuse the sale subject to payment of the amounts owed in charges and ground rent arrears.

b.Eventual forfeiture of the lease.

IN GENERAL..

Normally,the service charges from each leaseholder are put in a pot for maintenance and upgrading.Also,a well managed block of flats is assigned a committee to have regular meetings with the landlord regarding any concerns.

MY SUGGESTIONS

1.Set up a management committee with your fellow leaseholders in the block.

2.Request a meeting with the landlord(non confrontational) to form a clear strategy with him regarding the charges,maintenance costs and ground rent collection etc.

3.If all fails,collectively take your landlord to court but bear in mind you all would have to be very specific about your course of action which you all agree - a possibly not very easy task.

4.In my view,concentrate on making sure that maintenance work is carried out on a priority basis,security of the block of flats is not comprimised and grass - if any surrounding the block of flats is cut/gardens kept tidy on a regular basis.All these services would be expected from leaseholders in a block of flats.

I hope you find the above information/suggestions useful.

If you need any further help,just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

[StoneLaughter]

But he IS paying his ground rent; the Landlord is not cashing the cheques...

[agamemnon]

thanks for the reply nightmare4banks but as stone laughter says im paying my ground rent and the landlord is not cashing it. all i need to know is where i stand in relation to what ive actualy posted. i am paying my rent so he has libeled me
as i only have a ground rate fee of £25 and he claims i have not paid him for 4 years then the most i could owe is £100 and not the £800 + he has claimed in the letter

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

agamemnon,I would suggest that you do the following:

1.As previously mentioned,send a Data Protection Act request to the loan company together with the £10.

2.Contact the landlord and ask in writing only how he reached the figure of £800 regarding charges and ground rent.

In my view - please do not take what I say personally in any shape or form:

a.You are both at fault because if you are supposed to pay an amount of money towards the maintenance costs you are in breach of your obligations under the terms of your lease - as you said yourself every flat owner pays a certain amount towards maintenance etc.However you have not done this,please correct me if I am mistaken.Equally,your landlord has not cashed the cheques.He has in part misrepresented the facts you but because your non payment/dispute over the maintenance charges this would probably weaken any case you have against him.

b.In order to overcome the problems you have,refer to my previous posting.

If you need any more help or advice,just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

[agamemnon]

no one has actualy paid for the work as he cant provide any quotes for the work he claims might need doing. i have offered to pay my share of a quote to get the work done but as he cant produce a quote or even a break down jobs that might be undertaken im not going to pay out and waste my money. the lease is very ambigous and doesnt actualy state who should pay or how the monies should be collected and by whom. we have no management commity for the ressidents and yes if enough people could get together to form one then we could help ourselfs but most flats arnt occupied by the owners but are rented out and so the owners have little intrest as long as there rent is paid.

[Rich44]

Nightmare4Banks I fail to see how this is agamemnons fault at all

1. He is sending the ground rent on time its just not being cashed

2. He is perfectly entitled to see a breakdown of how the money is going to be spent before coughing up.

Here the local council was using their contractor they were doing the work and the leaseholders who owned their council homes were being billed in excess of 400% of the true value of the work £1000 to change some guttering instead of about £250 which is what the council were paying them for their remaining properties.

There are so many unscrupulous people out there who think like banks and use what should be an at cost charge to make a tidy little profit.

Imagine if the landlord charged everyone in the block £50 extra it would soon mount up to a nice little earner especially if the person doing the work had already inflated the quote too.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

agamemnon,you and your fellow leaseholders need to sort out the situation regarding the payment of the maintenance costs.Mainly,this will enable you to use the flat as security to borrow money against it and have a better relationship with your landlord.

Rich44,I am telling agamemnon in my view the possible likelihood of him winning a case against his landlord for libel as this is what is question was.I am not on this forum to "bash" anyone about his/her/their actions or otherwise but to give genuine blunt but to the point advice and suggestions.

As far as any maintenance work is concerned regarding Council properties,this is a totally different "kettle of fish" to leaseholders living in a private block of flats in terms of the applicable laws,the way maintenance works are carried out
and funds spent.

A good private landlord would have regular meetings with the owners(which the owners should encourage on a mutual understanding and amicable basis)- regardless if they reside in the flats or not to see how to spend the service charges properly and they would have a clear indication of the amount of the service charge to be collected normaly on 6 month basis with the ground rent payable on an annual basis because it is normally a nominal amount.

In agamemon's case,the landlord is not being very forthcoming with the costings etc.Equally he needs to receive adequate funds from the leaseholders otherwise he would not be able to carry out his duties properly as a landlord.Also, do not forgot landlords are businessmen and not charities but there is a VERY BIG difference between a good and a bad businessman.

[Rich44]

I totally agree with you regarding just telling at is it is however I believe if you took this in front of a judge and showed him a bank statement showing that the money was available and that you werent refusing to pay you just wanted a cost breakdown and to see the quotes that had been obtained the OP is totally entitled to query this before handing the money over and even if he isnt I venture to suggest he could claim the necessary information under the freedom of information act.

I agree the money has to be paid for the work to be done but ive seen so many cases of money being handed over for work not done, or excessive work done when not needed or ridiculous amounts for little work, it is rather common for less scrupulous landlords to use it to gain extra income rather than cover the cost of the repair.

IMHO the fact he has refused to cash the ground rent cheques and claimed the OP is £800 in arrears flags him up as an unscrupulous landlord to me and I wouldnt now trust him as far as I could throw the block of flats he owns

I would definatley want to see quotes before money would be handed over and try to get the landlord to be more forthcoming in future, this wouldnt be an issue if the landlord had sent a letter out saying this is going to cost x here is what will be done here is the quote and here is the breakdown for each tenants cost any landlord worth his salt would provide this information.

I agree that the money MUST be paid at some point its just getting to that point first

[Ewan]

Could you pay him in bank transfer? He cant refuse or not cash those.

[agamemnon]

he wouldnt accept a bank transfere and will only give out a mail box addresse in center of london so there is no actual way of contacting him.
i agree that work needs doing to decorate the hallways and also the windows and doors into the block are in need or replacing and if shown how much money it will cost me for the work then i will pay him.
the main point is that he seems to have imposed penalties on me for non payment of ground rent. even though i have tried to pay him the amount in question would be 100 pounds and not the 800 + he has claimed in a letter he has written about me.
from what i have read on thgese forums and researched on the net he has no legal right to impose his own penalty charges and if he wanted to impose them then he would need a court order. i have not recieved any mail from him in relation to any monies owing and have not recieved any court summons in relation to this. therefore as he cant impose penalties himself under english law they dont exist and he has basicaly lied about me to a 3rd party in writting, this should be covered under the libel laws we have.
has anyone here had any experiance in a matter similar to this ?

[waterbottle]

Sorry my post is 2 years late!

What the owner is trying to do is create a situation in which he can reposses flats for non payment of ground rent.

People buy these leases up cheaply and in bulk; not because they make any money but because if they refuse to take ground rent for long enough, people will stop paying. He will still have a paper trial of asking for the ground rent. Over time, and with people selling and moving on, he will eventually have a situation in which he can use a long period of non payment of ground rent for repossesion. Hey presto - free flat.

I read about this in a broadsheet last year.

There really are some scum out there.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by waterbottle

Sorry my post is 2 years late!

What the owner is trying to do is create a situation in which he can reposses flats for non payment of ground rent.

People buy these leases up cheaply and in bulk; not because they make any money but because if they refuse to take ground rent for long enough, people will stop paying. He will still have a paper trial of asking for the ground rent. Over time, and with people selling and moving on, he will eventually have a situation in which he can use a long period of non payment of ground rent for repossesion. Hey presto - free flat.

I read about this in a broadsheet last year.

There really are some scum out there.

About as likely to work as something that will not work, as Blackadder might have said.