Landolord and electrical safety

[ITMC]

Hi All -

I posted previously on this forum for advice on my disrepair issue and got some valuable advice from some of the members...so I tought somebody here could help me with some issues related to electrical safety

A bit of recap of the problem:

4 months ago, I had a leak from the flat above me and emailed the landlord to get the electricals checked because all appliances in the kitchen stopped working. The landlord did not do much and after a few days, coming back from work, I barely averted a fire in the house. I had to run and disconnecting electricity as water had penetrated several plugs and there were smoke and sparkles in the kitchen.

Even after the electrical accident all the landlord 's electrician did was just remove the plugs and join the electrical cables with tape . I strongly complained with the landlord that I was not happy with live electrical cables joined together with tape in a place where there had just been a major leak and there was humidity everywhere. To compound the problem the cables were just behind the gas hob !

The landlord ignored all my protests and left the electricals in this state for more than 3 months. He fixed it, in a superficial way, only when he got the money from his insurance claim. He treated me with contempt and ignored basic electrical safety rules: his only worry was getting the money from the insurance - hey, after all it's not him living in this conditions, it's just an useless tenant !

I feel he should not get away with that but the electrical safety rules, unlike the gas ones, are not mandatory and rather confusing for me. So I would appreciate some advice on this issue: can i take him to court for this? Can I ask fro compensation? (after all, all this guy cares about is his wallet so I may as well hit him on that! )

Thanks!

[MattyH]

As far as i am aware, there are no LEGAL conditions that state that electrics have to be checked every year (as the gas regs) but, that is not to say that they can be left unsafe, as this clearly would prove dangerous to your health. A call to environmental health might be a good idea?

Hth

Matt

[ITMC]

Hi Matt,

thank you for your reply. I called the environmental health but no joy, they were very inefficient. It took more than 1 month and several calls to get them to inspect the property . When they came all they said was " the property is in a very bad state but there is no much we can do. we don't deal with electricals ". I wonder what do they deal with....

[MrShed]

You cant ask for compensation as you had no physical damage or injury, or any financial loss I'm afraid. Current laws do not allow suing for the POTENTIAL of injury if you understand me. Not fair I know, but the way the law is.

[Billyhunt]

Hi ITMC,

The local authority do have powers if they feel there is a serious problem. If you feel it is still unsafe, maybe worth considering writing to them explaining your concerns and asking them to check again.

A local authority can take a number of courses of action under the Housing Act 1985 to deal with a property which is unfit for human habitation. This term sounds a bit strong but one of the criteria that is considered by the local authority regarding this is :- free from serious disrepair, such as dangerous wiring, damaged stairs, floors or windows. So they do 'deal with electricals' and don't let them tell you otherwise. They can serve the landlord with a repair notice, to ensure the work is carried out.

What sort of tenancy have you got? when did you take it out? its worth considering the result of taking action against your landlord regarding your tenancy. There is always a risk that the landlord may evict and although unfair, this outcome has to be considered. Action can also prove very time consuming and expensive. Don't mean to sound negative as I fully understand your worries and concerns, I would feel exacty the same, its just important to consider all possible outcomes before considering taking action independently (court action for example).

Shelter run a free housing advice telephone service on 0808 800 4444
You can also email them on info@shelter.org.uk They should be able to advise you further and refer you for specialist help or advice if you need it.

Hope this helps.

[jessop]

Certainly speak to your local authority and explain the situation and concerns about the electrics.

The options open to the council. One would be to risk assess the hazard using the Housing Health and Safety Rating System and issue a notice if required. If its a converted building and a HMO they could use the management regulations and again issue notice.

The only mandatory requirement for an electrical certificate is for a HMO (house in multiple occupation) other than a converted block of flats, i.e all self contained units in a building.

Hope that helps

[MrShed]

Actually an HMO does not have to consist of self contained units...any property with 2 or more people living in it who are not part of the same "family" is an HMO.

[ITMC]

Billyhunt,

thank you for your reply.

My tenancy is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. I don't mind being evicted. I do intend to leave the house after this issue with my little nice landlord, so if he tries to evict me it's just saving me from some paperwork .

As for the court, I intend to sue him anyway as during the disrepairs, lasted 4 months, I could not use the kitchen due to the dangerous wiring, lack of plugs in the kitchen (all but one burnt-out) humidity and smell. I am paying £1050 pm for a tiny 1-bed flat in London and asking me to pay the full amount for a flat with no kitchen, smelly and humid it's really a joke! .

Also, this electrical problem has ruined my time in the house...not feeling safe when you go to sleep it's not very enjoyable : I feel he should not get away with it. Even if I don't get compensation I was thinking that the inclusion of the electrical problem in the court case could scare my beloved gimme-the-money landlord and push him to settle before court. Can fear overcome avarice ?

I am surprised that the law is so weak when it comes to electrical safety. A fire near the gas hob could have harmed not only us and our flat, but the whole neighborough, and this just because this guy did not want to spend few quids before getting the monies from the insurance. Are there not penalties/fines provided for clear breach of electrical/gas safety ?

[ITMC]

Mr Shed,

I am living with my girlfriend which is not strictly part of the family (writing quickly while she's in the kitchen ). Does this qualify for a HMO? I called an independent electrician already and I have his report that the property does not comply with electrical standards - this was the reason why the circuit breaker did not trip when water leaked the plugs. Can that help?

Thanks!

[jessop]

Originally Posted by MrShed

2 or more people living in it who are not part of the same "family" is an HMO.

Its 3 or more Mr Shed, any property that has 2 persons in two seperate households is not a HMO. Schedule 14(7) HA 2004.

Originally Posted by MrShed

Actually an HMO does not have to consist of self contained units

Thats why I made reference to this The only mandatory requirement for an electrical certificate is for a HMO (house in multiple occupation) other than a converted block of flats, i.e all self contained units in a building.

ITMC it depends on the building you are living in, not necessarily on your flat alone. If its all self contained flats in the building and has building regulations approval post 1991, its not a HMO. If its a purpose built block of flats its not a HMO. If its all self contained flats without building control approval it could be a HMO.

As Mr Shed says a HMO doesn't have to be all self contained flats, could be a shared house, bedsits, a flat in multiple occupation, a mixture of self contained flats and bedsits, etc.

The new definitions of HMOs are now very extensive compared to the old Housing Act. But back to your original question you should contact your council and explain the situation. Your landlord has a duty of care to you as a tenant, how he goes about this duty is open to interpretation.

[Billyhunt]

Hi IMTC,

If you plan to leave the property anyway then the threat of eviction is not a problem for you so I agree, no need to worry, just thought it important to mention.

If you intend to sue anyway, then including the issue of unsafe wiring can only add weight to your evidence. It would be advisable to get legal advice though, contact shelter or pop into the citiziens advice bureau before commencing with any action

Good luck.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi

I have also problem with my electricity. Last week for whatever reason the kettle fused and did not blow the fuse specifically for the kitchen, but blew the main switch!! As i was working from home that day and had important stuff on my pc, it meant redoing work as the computer switched on and off.

But as stated, the landlord does not need to have a electric certificate, so nothing we can about apart from mentioning it and hoping nothing serious happens.

I think its very wrong that there is no certificate as i think more accidents happen due to wrong electricity than to gas. Hopefully some day it will change, but to be honest i dont have high hopes for that.

As for your case, make sure you take enough pictures for evidence before you leave the property. Of course a video clip would even be better, showing where the problems are.

Good luck with your case
LMS

[MrShed]

Actually it depends upon the definition of HMO you look at - in the strictest sense, an HMO is any property with people from 2 familys or more...

But that said, must admit that HMOs arent my strong point at all!!

[ITMC]

Thanks Billyhunt,

contacting shelter is a good idea. Will do as laws on electrical safety are quite confusing on the internet. From what jessop said my flat does not qualify as HMO so an electrical certificate is not required by law .

However I found several resources on the internet that state that the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994 and Consumer Protection Act 1987 all apply to the electrical safety problem. They all say that the the landlord "has the statutory duty to respect the safety of electrical equipment". I include some references I found with a quick google search as they may be helpful for somebody with a similar problem:


Landlord and tenant rights and responsibilities

Landlord Tenant Law::Letting Agent::Tenancy Agreement

Electrical Safety for Landlords

some of the reference state that the Landlord can occur penalties of up to 3 months imprisonment and/or £5000 fine if there is risk of fire for lack of electrical safety. Which I think will do fine for my beloved-and-caring Landlord saving at the expenses of my safety .

Now all these websites are kind of interpretation of the law and I guess it will be up to the judge in the court to assess the evidence. The question is what It would be fair to ask and how to state my claims in the N1 form for the court. Should I ask for abatement of the rent for the disrepair and add the electrical problems to add to the evidence/push the beloved LLord to settle? Any idea on how much it would be fair to ask for rent reduction when a 1 bed flat has no usable kitchen and has humidity and electrical problems?

[Billyhunt]

Hi, ITMC

To be honest the information you require regarding legal action/claim amounts is beyond my knowledge. I can help point you in the right direction, i.e shelter for more specialist advice but regarding legal action I am unqualified to comment. I am sure others with more experience can help you with this.

Mr shed did mention in a previous post the legal position regarding compensation without physical damage or injury, or any financial loss, so I would suggest further advice before starting any legal action.

Also, have you provided a deposit and if so were you able to use a rent deposit scheme. I know this has only become compulsory since April 2007 but was available before on a voluntary basis if required. If not, then just be aware that some landlords withhold deposits because of damage to the property etc and this could be a possible way of clawing back money paid out as compensation! Unfair but possible.

Good luck

[Kinzy]

hi All
Having read the threads above i would like to add under the new legalisation a landlord is required to have a periodic inspection and test done on the property,these are advised after change of tenancy but only legally binding every 5 years.If the landlord cannot produce a certificate of this nature over the last 5 years it can be enforced under the health and safety Act. I work as an electrician and in process of supplying these services locally.As for the tape joint you are quite within your rights to report this to authorising organisations eg,ECA,NICEC. Cowboys like this should be struck off before killing someone..
cheers kinzy

[MrShed]

What legislation is this????