Housing Benefit

[joneshousehold]

This is a bit of a story and I'm not sure how much of it I can fully remember but here goes.

My brother claims invalidity benefit and Housing benefit. He had been a tenant in a house for some time. He needed to move to a bungalow as he found the stairs difficult. So a couple of years ago I bought a bungalow which he now lives in (I am a good sis!). He pays rent from Housing Benefit and I use this to pay the mortgage. When we first looked into it the main problem was the amount of the rent. I needed to charge enough to cover the mortgage. I spoke to someone at the HBO who said there is some case law or tribunal decision supporting a higher rent that those amounts normally paid by HB because of the special requirements of the claimant. So we went ahead and I put the rent in the agreement at the level of the mortgage. At first HB refused to pay above the normal limits but eventually accepted it. However about 6 months later they stopped the higher rate and paid the normal limit maximum saying the agreement was temporary only - that was the first we had heard about it. My brother actually took it to a tribunal of sorts heard by some of the Councillors. They rejected the higher claim. He tried to appeal but we heard no more.

I am a little hazy on some of the details as the claim, hearing etc was done by my brother because he is the claimant. I am only the landlord.

Anyway the question I am asking is - does anyone know where I can get more information about the system of Housing Benefit appeals/tribunals etc and whether we can resurrect this.

Thanks

[barracad]

The charity 'Shelter' can give information about housing benefit - it may be worth checking out their website http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice...ousingbenefit/

Also, contact your local council, ask for the Housing Benefit department, and see if they can give you an idea of why they won't pay the higher amount.

[joneshousehold]

Thanks very much for the link. I hadn't thought about them at all! I'll have a look to see if it helps at all.
Cheers

[cheddar]

By the sounds of it your Brother was getting something called a Discretionary Housing Payment. This is a temporary benefit and is looked at on an individual basis. As far as i can remember it should state in his award letters that this type of payment is a temporary measure.

Basically this is normally what would happen with a DHP, you get someone who pays private rent so it will normally not be covered in full by HB so the tenant can apply for a DHP, but during the time they are getting this DHP they need to be looking for cheaper alternative accomodation so that the HB if still needed (as it would be with your borther) would cover the cheaper rent. In most cases the tenant would be looking for Social Housing. This then gives the tenant more of a priority (depending on how your local council social housing policy works). So basically you can get the DHP until you get social housing, if you are getting stuck and can't find any social housing then the council has a duty to help you out. This would be either by extending the DHP or getting the tenant cheaper accomodation. In these cases the claimant has to prove what steps they have taken to try and find cheaper accomodation and the HB officier is usually in pretty close contact with the claimant to see what they are doing and advise them of how long they can get this payment for.

However it should have be made very clear that the DHP is a temporary measure but in this case it doesn't seem that they have fullfilled their side of this either. They haven't told him that it was temp or checked on him to see if he was going to find somewhere else.

I hope this helps. The HB dept have their own appeals service, then it can go to a tribunal and then you can take it higher, the HB officer should have all the literature on this, if not contact your local Councils Finance Director.

[shellshocked]

Not sure what the HB limit is, perhaps ask them what it is, can you specify how much the monthly amount is he gets here? that he is currently getting and what the shortfall is?

From what I have been told they look at the average rent for the area for the size of the property and class that as a fair rent, they will never pay more what they believe is a fair rent. So if eg. you charge your brother £400 a month for a 1 bed bungalow but the council believes £320 is the fair rent then they wont award more then £320. Other factors are if they deem if the property is too big, and if it is they then start deducting amounts for excess rooms, and his income, normally if on income support their is no deductions for income and the full amount is paid.

So assuming they deducting nothing for income, and nothing for size of property, then the limiting factor must be the average rent charged in your area, been the council I would expect they deeming the average a bit lower then what it actually is but I would get a local paper and look for the prices been advertised in rent for bungalows, if they are indeed higher then what your brother is been paid then use that as the basis of your claim.

I would be very surprised if your brother got given a council flat since there is massive housing shortages and waiting lists around the country and generally if you have no child you will be waiting for years especially if you are a male.

You are a victim of a joke of a housing benefit system and can probably see why so many landlords say no DSS.

[joneshousehold]

Thanks for the information. We had a fair rent assessment and there were several rates, 1 for the particular property which was the same rate as we charge £550 per month. There is a then another rate for the average property in the area which is currently £415 per month (or 4 weekly I can't remember which). The problem is that the bungalow rates are higher on average because of scarsity. So although the rent is deemed fair the council will only pay the average for all types of property.

My brother is married and he needs a bungalow on disability grounds. He has a doctor's letter about it but they still refuse to budge. He did get the discretionary payment for a while but that has now stopped as it is time limited.

What I wanted to know is if there were additional amounts for special needs such as disability other than the short term discretionary amount.

[Bookworm]

I am amazed he even managed to get HB, as most councils will NOT grant HB if you're renting from a relative, even distant ones!

Sorry, I know this doesn't help with the situation, but just brought this up, as that was my first thought when I read your story. I doubt it would have any bearing on this particular case, but might be an idea to double-check this anyhow.

[joneshousehold]

Yes Bookworm, you are right. We sorted that out before we went into it. Apparantly there is some legal precedent somewhere but I cannot remember what now. It's something to do with a genuine commercial arrangement I think. Also the fact that he was already a claimant before he moved into the bungalow or something like that.

[cheddar]

Yes the HB dept uses something called an Applicable Amount this is made up of different factors and disability premium is one of them, it should be stated on his award notice.

[shellshocked]

whats invalidity benefit?

disability living allowance will qualify him for the premium.

To get that discretionary payment renewed apperently you need to prove he is looking for cheaper alternatives so in other words the council are saying either he coughs up the difference in rent or look for somewhere cheaper. Life is cruel but they are following the law.

If you put him on the council house waiting list given his demands I would expect him to not get housed anytime soon but because you have made efforts to move him, they should then renew the payment, but be aware that in the unlikely event housing is found but he doesnt accept it the extra payments may be stopped again.

[joneshousehold]

Thanks for the information. That is really useful. Invalidity Benefit is of course no longer in force and I think he does get Disability Living Allowance.

I will have a word with him about what he actually gets. Is the premium something he gets direct or via Housing Benefit?

Is the premium the same as the discretionary payments or something separate?

[shellshocked]

ok done some reasearch for you on this, invalidity benefit is what is now incapacity benefit so disability living allowance he isnt getting unless its a 2nd benefit of his but if you on incapacity benefit for longer then 12 months (long term rate) then you get the disability premium. This isnt the same as income support and doesnt mean you get no deductions for income it just means you are deducted less.

Incidently I will now be doing what I may reccomend to you.

I rang my council asking for the housing benefit on account and they wont pay up advising me of a 6+ month waiting list (I dont intend to wait that long).

So will be getting my MP to give them a prod to sort me out before then.

If you have written letters to them and got nowhere you could try your mp.

Also an alternative is a form of income support available that can be used for housing costs that housing benefit dont cover, I dont know much about it but its something the DWP handles not the local council so give them a ring and enquire.

[joneshousehold]

Thanks once again. Are you researching this for yourself. I am not sure if you are a tenant or a landlord. I am not really sure what you mean when you said

I rang my council asking for the housing benefit on account and they wont pay up advising me of a 6+ month waiting list

I think you mean you are making a new claim and they say it will take 6 months to sort out.

I will have to talk to my brother about what he gets and see if he can claim income support. He has been on benefits for several years but I don't know if he perhaps has some preserved benefit or if it is a form of Incapacity Benefit. I think I need to know more from him to be able to decide what to do.

Anyway good luck with your action and once again thanks very much.

[cheddar]

Have a look at his actual award notices for his HB it will break down what his income is, what his Applicable Amount is and what it is made up of and the calculation they will use thereof.

I too am interested in this other IS benefit, I have racked my brains and gone back to my training manuals and cannot see what it is.

[shellshocked]

did the reasearch for you, the payment on account I happened to find at the same time and was useful for myself, I am a tenant who claims myself. It isnt a brand new claim as such I moved house and all they need to do is update the address and rent amount.

invalidity benefit is an old discontinued benefit that was replaced by incapacity benefit so they should be more or less the same thing.

Income support entitlement is 57.45 for 25 years and over then premiums on top are awarded for specific things. If he has no children then its likely the only premium he will get is disability premium which is 24.20. If his invalidity benefit is higher then 81.65 he wont be entitled to income support and may lose some of his housing benefit for excess income. If its lower then claim the income support even if its just a few £ as it automatically qualifies for max rate of housing and council tax benefit. The same calculations are used for housing benefit so 81.65 if over that its deemed as excess. If he is under 25 he is entitled to less income support.

[cheddar]

All these rates and applicable amounts can be found on the DWP website www.dwp.gov.uk

[super654]

Originally Posted by joneshousehold

Yes Bookworm, you are right. We sorted that out before we went into it. Apparantly there is some legal precedent somewhere but I cannot remember what now. It's something to do with a genuine commercial arrangement I think. Also the fact that he was already a claimant before he moved into the bungalow or something like that.

Joneshousehold: Could you explain further how you were able to rent to a relative, because i am in exactly the same situation. Thanks