Business rent - being sued

[flatnoseroger]

Try to keep a long story short. In 2004 I took over a cafe lease (it cost me and my wife all our savings £20,000). Within a month the property was sold to another landlord, so we only have a copy of the lease between the original leasor and the previous landlord.

After I took over I discovered that the previous leasor had not paid any rent or business rates, in fact she hadn't paid anything. Not quite sure how our solicitor missed all this! We had bailiffs coming to the premises, the staff had not been paid! And to top it the previous leasor had 'done a runner' with our savings.

Of course the business made no money! and we missed the rent, the new landlord kept turning up demanding money, I offered to pay a little extra on the rent to make up the missed payments. But he refused, and started proceedings to force us out. In the end I surrendered the tenancy.

Now two years later out of the blue the landlord has sent us a letter demanding the missed rent payments plus £255 interest on top, a total of £2003.78. This is rent I missed, not the previous leasor. I can't understand why he's left it for so long? Plus can he add on an interest charge? I have no copy of any agreement between myself and him. I've been ill since this all happended and on disability benefits so I don't have this kind of money.

I now have seven days to respond, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger,I am very sorry to read about your problems with your landlord.

Before I attempt to assist you,please answer the following questions/clarify:

1.What was the length of the original lease granted to you?

2.How long were you trading prior to getting hassled by the new landlord for the rent owed by the previous tenant/leaseholder?

3.Did you pay any of the rent owed by yourself to the landlord or not?

4.You say that the landlord was trying to force you to vacate the property.Please explain this in more detail.

Upon the receipt of the answers to the above,I should be in a better position to help you further.

[flatnoseroger]

1. The original lease for for 3 years, I purchased the lease with another 2 years to run.

2. Did not get hassled for previous trader's rent - this was settled as our purchase went through - it was other their debts that we had bailiff's turning up for.

3. No - was two months behind and tried to make an offer of spreading payments on top of current rent. Which was refused.

4. As soon as we owed two months he started threatening us with legal proceedings and bailiffs straight away. He sent legal letters, but no court order.

I had already lost our savings so took what equipment was mine before I lost that too and surrendered the lease. I was trading for 3 months only with the new landlord.

Hope this is helpful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger,I would suggest you do the following/note the following:

1.Write a letter back to your landlord and counterclaim for loss of your "quiet enjoyment" of the premises due to him hassling you for the rent arrears owed by yourself whilst you were a tenant/leaseholder in occupation of the property.
Which in the end caused you to surrender the lease.

2.To be frank with you,the fact that the previous leaseholder "ripped you off" is nothing to do with your landlord.If he was aware of the facts he should have been more understanding i.e.bailiffs entrying the property regarding debts not owed by yourself etc. and thus more patient in collecting the rent from you.

3.If possible,you should get a solicitor to draft this letter and send it to him.But beware that he seems to be a very unpleasant person so if you own your property he may try to get a judgement in his favour - which he could possibly do and register a caution on your property which means that you will not be able to sell the property or borrow against it without paying your landlord off in full.

4.What I have told you is more of a tactic that hopefully should work.When your counterclaim against your landlord you should specify that the amount of your losses as a result of him hassling you - causing loss of earnings and shop fittings etc resulting in you surrendering the lease.This should exceed the amount he is demanding and it is for an unfixed amount for a court of law to decide.

5.If you are on benefits,you should be able to get help from a solicitor at no cost to yourself - although I am not sure of the current rules.There is nothing stopping you from drafting a letter to your landlord to stating that you will be counterclaiming against him as outlined before but send this letter to him recorded delivery and keep a copy of it.

6.A landlord can forfeit a lease on the grounds of rent arrears and possibly charge interest albeit reasonable depending on the terms of the lease.I feel that your landlord has been "a bit over the top" and hopefully if it your case does reach a courtroom a judge will agree with me too.

7.However,by counterclaiming as I explained before you put your landlord in the same position he has put you.I wonder how he would feel then??
Hopefully,you will not hear from him again!

I hope you find this information useful.

If you have any questions or need further help,just ask.

All the best!

[flatnoseroger]

Thank you for your response, I'm preparing to draft my letter now.

Lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) for me I don't own a property or have any assets.

I suppose it's also unfortunate for the landlord that he hand delivered most of his rent demands by hand during business hours, all correspondence inc. envelopes have been kept.

Re: point 4 what sort of length of time should I base loss of earnings on? I'm presuming that he will take me to small claims so is there a max limit of £5,000. The amount does not bother me because I'd rather he just dropped it as I thought I'd put this all behind me. Silly me for feeling content.

Thanks.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger,this is my view and with some suggestions:

1.Draft the letter to the landlord outlining the fact that:

"Should you opt to persue me in court for the rent and interest I will be and with the deepest regret counterclaiming against you for mainly my loss of earnings for an unfixed amount plus interest but exceeding the amount you are claiming against myself in rent and interest owed.The amount to be decided by The Honourable Judge."

2.You do not need to get into alot of detail at this stage simply state as I have mentioned that your conterclaim exceeds his claim against you the words mentioned between the ".

3.He cannot get the rent off of you without a court order in his favour and the idea of you counterclaiming against him will "spoil his little plan".Mainly that you are going to put a defence and counterclaim against him - as much as you do not know the outcome he would not either.His fear of the unknown - level of claim against him should hopefully put him off persuing you for the rent and interest.

4.If he wants to go to court you simply fill in the forms and issue your counterclaim against him.Also,if you are on benefits you should get a waiver on the court fees.This is something you enquire about by phoning the nearest county court enquiry/helpline after you have sent the landlord the recorded delivery letter.

5.If the landlord does send you a summons,post the particulars here or PM me and will assist you further.So we can issue a kick a** defence and counterclaim for you!

I hope you find this information and suggestions useful.

If you have any questions or are unsure what to do next - just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Nightmare4banks

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger,I would suggest you do the following/note the following:

1.Write a letter back to your landlord and counterclaim for loss of your "quiet enjoyment" of the premises due to him hassling you for the rent arrears owed by yourself whilst you were a tenant/leaseholder in occupation of the property.
Which in the end caused you to surrender the lease.

2.To be frank with you,the fact that the previous leaseholder "ripped you off" is nothing to do with your landlord.If he was aware of the facts he should have been more understanding i.e.bailiffs entrying the property regarding debts not owed by yourself etc. and thus more patient in collecting the rent from you.

3.If possible,you should get a solicitor to draft this letter and send it to him.But beware that he seems to be a very unpleasant person so if you own your property he may try to get a judgement in his favour - which he could possibly do and register a caution on your property which means that you will not be able to sell the property or borrow against it without paying your landlord off in full.

4.What I have told you is more of a tactic that hopefully should work.When your counterclaim against your landlord you should specify that the amount of your losses as a result of him hassling you - causing loss of earnings and shop fittings etc resulting in you surrendering the lease.This should exceed the amount he is demanding and it is for an unfixed amount for a court of law to decide.

5.If you are on benefits,you should be able to get help from a solicitor at no cost to yourself - although I am not sure of the current rules.There is nothing stopping you from drafting a letter to your landlord to stating that you will be counterclaiming against him as outlined before but send this letter to him recorded delivery and keep a copy of it.

6.A landlord can forfeit a lease on the grounds of rent arrears and possibly charge interest albeit reasonable depending on the terms of the lease.I feel that your landlord has been "a bit over the top" and hopefully if it your case does reach a courtroom a judge will agree with me too.

7.However,by counterclaiming as I explained before you put your landlord in the same position he has put you.I wonder how he would feel then??
Hopefully,you will not hear from him again!

I hope you find this information useful.

If you have any questions or need further help,just ask.

All the best!

How was you purchase achieved. Did you use an accountant to check the books & a Solictor to exchange the contracts

[flatnoseroger]

I used a solicitor, but there was no books as the cafe had only been running for 10 months. I was stupid I know, but I was told a lot of lies which I believed. I've learnt my lesson the hard way.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger my friend I have to blunt with you learn from the past and concentrate on now and the future.

If you used a solicitor for the assignment of the lease you may have redress against your solicitor.If I were in your shoes I would complain to your solicitor - in writing and see what response you may receive.

I say this because a good solicitor would check that all bills had been paid prior to the completion the transaction.

Also,did you do the letter to your ex-landlord?

If you need any help in drafting this letter/letter to your solicitor or have any questions,just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Nightmare4banks

Hi all!

Flatnoseroger my friend I have to blunt with you learn from the past and concentrate on now and the future.

If you used a solicitor for the assignment of the lease you may have redress against your solicitor.If I were in your shoes I would complain to your solicitor - in writing and see what response you may receive.

I say this because a good solicitor would check that all bills had been paid prior to the completion the transaction.

Also,did you do the letter to your ex-landlord?

If you need any help in drafting this letter/letter to your solicitor or have any questions,just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

Any professional you hired has a duty of care to act with due diligence. A good solicitor would have advised you to engage an accountant to go through the books. I suggest if its the case that no advice of any sort was forthcoming or if he was acting for both parties you may have grounds not only for complaint but also compensation.

[flatnoseroger]

Thank you for your replies.

No my solicitor never advised me to use an accountant. I was advised that the rent had not been paid. The decision was made that as soon as I transferred the funds for purchasing, that the outstanding rent would be cleared prior to the ex leaseholder receiving the rest. After taking over I then had bailiff's turning up for unpaid rates, unpaid equipment leases, etc. She did even pay the staff's last weeks wages.

To be fair to my solicitor I was a bit keen to rush the purchase through, and I'd rather let sleeping dogs lie. As it is I've had my fingers burnt and learnt my lesson.

I have sent a letter to the landlord, basically saying what you suggested. It was sent recorded delivery, and post office tried delivering it yesterday at 5.45 am hehe. So far no response, will keep you guys informed.

Thanks again.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by flatnoseroger

Thank you for your replies.

No my solicitor never advised me to use an accountant. I was advised that the rent had not been paid. The decision was made that as soon as I transferred the funds for purchasing, that the outstanding rent would be cleared prior to the ex leaseholder receiving the rest. After taking over I then had bailiff's turning up for unpaid rates, unpaid equipment leases, etc. She did even pay the staff's last weeks wages.

To be fair to my solicitor I was a bit keen to rush the purchase through, and I'd rather let sleeping dogs lie. As it is I've had my fingers burnt and learnt my lesson.

I have sent a letter to the landlord, basically saying what you suggested. It was sent recorded delivery, and post office tried delivering it yesterday at 5.45 am hehe. So far no response, will keep you guys informed.

Thanks again.

Always at the end of the day the choice is your but I'm sorry I fail to understand that on the basis of what you have said that you don't want to complain & seek compensation from your solicitor. If they gave an undertaking to pay the outstanding rent & didn't then they are to blame for the whole of the mess you now find yourself in.

Furthermore if they & despite your wish to hurry went ahead with the purchase without warning you most strongly of the possible consequences of NOT settling all outstanding bills at completion then they where very remiss in their "duty of care " to you.

If you attempt to sue the previous tenant your claim may be struck out with the court remarking that you have an alternative remedy. After all you can't expect the seller to act in YOUR best interests. caveat emptor!

[flatnoseroger]

[quote=JonCris]Always at the end of the day the choice is your but I'm sorry I fail to understand that on the basis of what you have said that you don't want to complain & seek compensation from your solicitor. If they gave an undertaking to pay the outstanding rent & didn't then they are to blame for the whole of the mess you now find yourself in.

I understand what you are saying, but there seems to be some confusion. The previous leaseholder's rent was settled ... the landlord is demanding rent that I missed whilst in the premises. Unfortunately I fell behind because the business just did'nt make enough money to cover the rent. The previous leaseholder did not pay any rent for 10 months, alas I missed two payments and was harrassed and threatened.

Thanks for you help.