Kitchen a deathtrap

[davethorp]

We've been living in a housing association flat (formerly council but changed to HA) since Dec 2005.

Since we moved in we've had numerous problems of noise, threats and abuse from our upstairs neighbour which they have done very little about but thats not what this post is about.

Yesterday lunchtime we noticed some water coming through our kitchen ceiling which we reported to the repairs line who weren't especially interested and said we'd need to talk to the guy upstairs about it which isn't something we really want to do given the hell he has put us through for the last 15 months.

So we left it thinking it would probably stop if he'd just left the tap on in his kitchen or something.

Today its a lot worse and the water is now coming from the light fitting as well which is a clear safety hazard.

Sent the following e-mail to them first thing this morning with pictures and a video showing the water coming from the light fitting.

Dear Sir/Madam

I write regarding the leaking ceiling that I reported to the repairs
line yesterday.

Since initially reporting the repair the leak has gotten much worse.
There is now drips coming from more parts of the ceiling. I attach
digital photos showing this. I also attach a digital movie (quicktime
player will be required to view the movie) showing that the leak has now
reached the electrics and drips are coming from the light fitting. This
is clearly now a serious safety hazard.

As such I expect the problem to be repaired immediately. Should this not
be done by 4PM today our present flat will be deemed to be un-liveable
(particularly for a family with a baby) and we would expect one of the
following

1. To be provided a new home either on a temporary basis or ideally a
permanent basis given all the other problems we have had since moving
into this home which gateway have failed to resolve (something that
resulted in us being paid the sum of £300 in compensation from
yourselves following our last complaint (a cc copy of this e-mail has
been forwarded to Paul Roberts who dealt with our last complaint))
2. Failing that as our present accommodation is un-liveable we will be
left with no other alternative but to check into a hotel or similar
accommodation at community gateway associations expense. In this event
housing benefit would be instructed to pay directly to us with community
gateway association expected to pay any difference

I look forward to hearing from you and your proposals to fix this problem

Regards

Mr D J Thorp

Just wanting to check my rights on this especially if we are forced to carry out the threat of checking into a hotel at their expense. We dont particularly want to stay here (esp with all the other probs we have had) with the kitchen being unsafe and ideally would like to use this as an excuse to speed up our application for a new home following the anti social behaviour problems we have had (which we wouldn't be surprised if this was his new way of getting to us)

[Joa]

IMHO you are going along the right lines. You are clearly capable of dealing with this and I haven't got anything new to add, only few point to note, of which you must be aware anyway: landlord has to be given a "reasonable" time to tend to repairs, which in cases of emergency is of course limited. Your HA may have difficulties in obtaining the entry onto the flat above and may have to make extra steps to ensure their forced entry is legal (if the guy is not at home). Housing Benefit people are not very good in responding to emergencies like this and will continue paying rent to HA. Any B&B, hotel etc will require payment straight away, so if you haven't got funds ready,it's very possible that they'll refuse to give you a room.
If the accommodation is un-habitable, you have every right to present yourself to your local authority as homeless- but only on basis of current emergency, not anti-social behaviour. You'd present yourself as homeless mainly as a shock tactic, beause once the repair is completed, you will no longer have a homelessness claim. The purpose is to secure temporary accommodation and for local authority to put pressure on your HA to repair the problem.
I assume however, that you may not need to make a homelessness application, because your letter and evidence is very strong and will bring the desired effect swiftly.If not, come back and we'll advise further.
Good luck and keep us posted!

PS: on anti-social behaviour:Respect - Members - Overview of anti-social behaviour and housing

[davethorp]

Thanks Joa for that.....

BTW if anyone wants to look at the pictures I've uploaded them to my webserver now (and sent another e-mail to the landlords with the links as they may have not got the first one as the attachments are large)

56k users may want to think twice before clicking the links

http://www.dave-thorp.me.uk/water/p3230101.jpg
http://www.dave-thorp.me.uk/water/p3230102.jpg
http://www.dave-thorp.me.uk/water/p3230103.mov
http://www.dave-thorp.me.uk/water/p3230104.jpg

[davethorp]

Regarding if we have to stay in a B&B been checking my contents insurance cover in case the water ends up damaging any of the electrical appliances we have in the kitchen (fridge freezer etc etc) and my policy documentation states:

While the home cannot be lived in because of loss or damage covered by this policy, the insurer will pay for

i Rent payable for which you are legally liable
or
ii The reasonable increased cost of alternative accommodation for you and your family and your domestic pets

The insurer will not pay more than 20% of the sum insured for contents for any one claim (means they will pay up to £3000)

So at least we have that option though I would expect my landlords (not unreasonably I don't think) to pay the excess of £50 as well as some compensation for the loss of my no claims should we be forced to make a claim on that

[davethorp]

Got somewhere anyway. Landlords sent an electrician over who has removed and made safe the light fitting in the kitchen. He also went into the upstairs property and established that his washing machine was leaking. Not sure how the guy above failed to notice that himself. Can only assume he was too wacked out on drugs to notice

Landlords sending a plumber round to upstairs and then just a case of waiting for everything to dry out

Thanks for your post Joa anyway but hopefully getting sorted now

[Glenn UK]

Joa

if you pick up on this thread can you contact me please?

thanks

Glenn

PS Sorry for the hijack

[davethorp]

Originally Posted by Glenn UK

PS Sorry for the hijack

I'll let you off

[Glenn UK]

LOL

thanks Dave if you had a problem related to fire I'm might have been able to help, as its simply a matter of being fried I'm sorry i cant. I did come in with the intent of helping if i could though.

Glenn

[blacksheep1979]

If the light is off at the switch then it will be just as safe as if the electricain has disconnected it. Your insurance won't pay for temporary accomodation (nor will HA for what is tbh just a leak).

[Glenn UK]

That is not entirely true i think, the ceiling rose will act as a junction box and the swtiched live may run from there.

in other words the ceiling rose will have the live circuit connected to it and so in theory it coujld be live due to conduction via the water.

THe only way to be make sure the light and associated wirng is dead is to switch of at the fuse box for that circuit.

Im not a sparks but im certain that ligthing circuits are run this way and switching off at thre switch only turns the lamp off, no more.

if theres a psarks around they could confrim one way or another.

JHMO

Glenn

[blacksheep1979]

hmmm I would have thought the logical and safer way would be to have the current switched off at the switch so you can work on the light fitting - and am fairly sure that when I've tinkered with light fittings it was that way (prod with one of those current tester screwdrivers).

[Glenn UK]

Blacksheep

I think it depends on when/how the wiring was installed, im certain the light corcuits are looped from one fitting to the next and the live is taken to the switch from there and back.

Im no sparky so could be wrong id hate for the OP to find i was right though and possibly not wake up.

Glenn

PS could he find out i was right if he didnt wake up?

[davethorp]

Well the electrician has removed the light fitting and put plugs over the wires from the looks of it. Seems safe enough anyway and we have a big warning sign we made stuck over the kitchen lightswitch reminding ourselves not to use it

Plumber been, from sounds of it they wont be fixing upstairs til Monday but he's been told to clean it up so there must have been some mess in his kitchen so how he didn't notice is beyond me (its not like its just a bit of water, its been leaking for over 24 hours from numerous parts of our ceiling. The kitchen floor is flooded and an old quilt we put down to catch the water is soaked wet through).

Anyway as long as the electrics are safe we'll be ok I guess but we need to use a torch in kitchen at night now until its all dried out and they can refix the light fitting

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi dave

sorry to hear about the mess you are in. Not to talk it right but last year my washing machine was leaking and I did not notice until my downstairs neighbours called the landlord and he called me to check whats going on. The problem with my machine was that a seal was broken/malfunction and when I used the machine, it leaked water. So a full machine of water basically went over the floor and downstairs, and i only spotted some water on my floor, not knowing how bad it was downstairs. I did not even realise it was effectingn downstairs as I only saw some water on the floor and as there are cupboards around it I could not have a proper look (nor good i move the machine at its too heavy and the kitchen too small). So it might have been that the same was at your guy, he only saw same water and if his kitchen is a mess he might not have seen it at all. This doesnt justify his behaviour of course, but can explain why he did not do anything.

Thank god though all you guys are ok and problem is getting solved.

LMS

[davethorp]

Well on the plus side its now not leaking anywhere near as much as it was. So hopefully it will start drying out.

Thinking about charging admission and competing with the local swimming baths

[blacksheep1979]

Originally Posted by Glenn UK

Blacksheep

I think it depends on when/how the wiring was installed, im certain the light corcuits are looped from one fitting to the next and the live is taken to the switch from there and back.

Im no sparky so could be wrong id hate for the OP to find i was right though and possibly not wake up.

Glenn

PS could he find out i was right if he didnt wake up?

nope, def doesn't work that way - live only enters the circuit once the switch is thrown.