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Residential and Commercial Lettings This is the place for both Landlords and Tenants to discuss letting issues, and share experiences.


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Old 11th March 2007, 08:18   #1 (permalink)
den3371
Classic Account Customer
Angry Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

I am writing this on behalf of some friends.

They live in London and have been told recently that the Landlord wants them to leave the flat, as he wants to sell the property.

There has been no Notice to Quit in fact nothing in writing at all.

He has also told one of the tenants that if they don't move 'he can make things very difficult for them' (charming!)

They have never been late with the rent but have a few issues with the state of repair of the property, which the Landlord has made no attempt to see too.

What are their rights? If they are kicked out they have nowhere else to go!

Many thanks for any advice given
__________________
den3371
Dog attack - 23/04/07
LBA sent - 25/05/07
Various harrassment - ongoing!
Court papers due in 16/11/07
Court date - 30/11/07 10am!
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Old 11th March 2007, 09:51   #2 (permalink)
LittleMissSunshine
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Hi Den

I had a sort of similar situation a while ago and went to both the Council and CAB for advice. My experience there is as followed:
If you have a AST than they can not just kick you out. They have to give notice (usually 2 months depending on contract) by letter with reason why. Selling a house is not on that list. There are only certain reasons which they can use to kick you out early, and it doesnt look like it. If the AST ends, than of course the landlord can decide not to extend it, but I think there is still a notice period. (not sure about that, but you have to be given notice that the landlord doesnt want to extend the contract)

Also I think that the landlord saying he can make things difficult is harrasment and that is against the law. The best thing for that is to go to the local police and record your concerns with them. It might sound a bit drastic, but it can be useful later.

I would say to your friends, go to CAB with all the paperwork you have (especially AST), and explain situation.
They will be in good position to help.

Also there are some people here who know a lot, so give it a day or two to get replies

I know getting notices like that from a landlord isnt nice, but tell them not to panick to much at the moment. If they have an AST they can stay at least another two months if not longer.

Keep us posted
LMS
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Old 11th March 2007, 10:31   #3 (permalink)
den3371
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Thanks LMS!
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Old 11th March 2007, 12:32   #4 (permalink)
blacksheep1979
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Do your friends have a contract? What length of period is it for and when does it end?

Wouldn't bother with the CAB - they are well meaning but half the time don't have the foggiest. The police if they record the incident is a good idea, but more than likely they will try fob you off with the 'its a civil matter', if you really want to push it then ask to speak to the duty inspector.

If the landlord has not given written notice to quit then they don't have to leave till he does (and then + two months). However difficult he can make their lives, his will be worse by the fact that they are staying there and if he does anything really naughty then they can involve the police.
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Old 11th March 2007, 13:30   #5 (permalink)
den3371
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Hi Blacksheep, yes they have a contract it is an AST. The Tenants themselves had to buy a contract from Woolworths, filled it out and asked him to sign it as he wouldn't do this himself!

One of the Tenants has been there for 2 years already and another one has been there for 3 years, but the Landlord wants all of them out at the same time. Nobody there has received notice to quit.

Because he wants to sell the property the Landlord as already arranged for Builders to commence work from the date he has asked them leave, which is 21st April. However this request has been verbal, no notice has been issued.
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Old 11th March 2007, 15:15   #6 (permalink)
Joa
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Quote:
Wouldn't bother with the CAB - they are well meaning but half the time don't have the foggiest.
blacksheep, have you had a bad experience with CAB? Is this your personal opinion? Are you aware that you really shouldn't fling generalisations like that around? Or have you checked every single bureau in UK?
Yes, there are some caseworkers who have just started, are overworked or do not care, but as a ex-CAB myself and with extensive experience of other bureaux I would say that you must have been very unlucky indeed.
The level of knowledge and experience is often unsurpassed by even solicitors. CAB caseworkers have passion and motivation- otherwise why would they do it? They get paid peanuts or work voluntarily.
So back off my friend
Now, If I wanted to offer just a very basic advice, it would be that you cannot be forced to move even after two months. What happens is:
the notice expires and you are still at the property; the landlord then has to apply to court and ask the court for the possession order- possible timescale 2-3 months for the court to hear the case; the court orders for you to move, but you stay put. The landlord has to go back to the court and ask the court for the enforcement order (so he is allowed to employ court bailiffs)- possible timescale another 2,3 months plus high costs, which landlord has to bear but for which he can pursue you in the future.
The landlord applies to court bailiffs to execute the order- possible timescale another month.
So, as you can see, you can stay in the property for another 4,5 months without breaking the law but you will seriously put landlord's back up by doing this. He would break the law if he was to force you to move out before the above-described steps are exhausted.

What I would therefore propose, if at all possible and the landlord can be reasoned with is to have a serious meeting, print-out relevant parts of this post, show him and say: we are going to be out in May/June/etc anyway; do you want to let us stay in till May/June/etc and then we will go quietly? If not, we are afraid, we will stay anyway and it will take some time and money for you to remove us.

Now some general info about eviction and seeking possession and notices.


This will be put up shortly as a sticky, and I would therefore welcome comments with regards to the info below.



The landlord has the right to seek possession at the end of the fixed term or after six months from the start of the tenancy, whichever is the longest. If the tenancy has a fixed term of less than six months, the landlord cannot evict the tenant within the first six months of the tenancy, unless the landlord has a reason (ground) for doing so.
During any fixed term of either an assured or an assured shorthold tenancy, the tenant can only be evicted if the landlord has a reason, or ground, laid down by statute for evicting her/him (unless the tenancy agreement contains a valid break clause.) The landlord will have to go to court to obtain a possession order to evict the tenant. The tenant cannot be legally evicted in any other way, for example, the special assured shorthold procedure cannot be used during a fixed term.

During the fixed term, the landlord can use a ground for possession in order to evict the tenant if:-
• the tenancy agreement has a term allowing early termination, or 'forfeiture', on the grounds listed below, AND

• (for some grounds for possession) the landlord has given notice to the tenant, before the tenancy began, that s/he might use that ground for possession; AND

• the landlord serves the tenant with the correct notice that s/he is starting the possession proceedings. This is called a notice seeking possession. Notice periods vary depending on the ground for possession used and can be shortened by the court in some cases; AND

• s/he applies to court, persuades the court that the ground applies and, (for some grounds), that it is reasonable to give possession, and is granted a possession order. If the tenant does not leave, the landlord will have to use the court bailiffs.
During any fixed term the only grounds which can be used to evict a tenant are:-
Ground 2 there is a mortgage on the property, which started before the tenancy started, and the lender wants to sell the property (normally to pay off mortgage arrears), and the landlord notified the tenant in writing before the tenancy started that s/he might seek possession on this ground (though the court can waive this requirement)
Ground 8 the tenant's rent is more than two months or eight weeks in arrears, both when the landlord gave notice seeking possession and at the date of the court hearing
Ground 10 the tenant is in rent arrears, both when the landlord serves notice seeking possession and when s/he begins court proceedings
Ground 11 the tenant has persistently delayed paying rent
Ground 12 the tenant has broken one or more terms of the tenancy agreement, apart from not paying rent
Ground 13 the condition of the property has got worse because of damage or neglect by the tenant or any other person living with the tenant
Ground 14 the tenant, or someone living in or visiting the property, has caused a nuisance or annoyance or has been convicted of using her/his home, or allowing it to be used, for immoral or illegal purposes
Ground 15 the tenant, or someone living with the tenant, is alleged to have damaged the landlord's furniture
Ground 17 (from 28 February 1997 only) the tenant induced the landlord to grant her/him the tenancy by making a false statement.
Notice At least two months' notice must be given for ground 2. At least two weeks' notice must be given for grounds 8, 10-13, 15 and 17. In the case of ground 14, possession proceedings can start as soon as notice has been served.

At the end of six months, or at the end of the initial fixed-term, whichever is the longer, the landlord can automatically get a court order to evict the tenant and does not need any grounds for doing so.

A tenancy agreement may contain a break clause. This is a clause which allows a landlord to end a fixed term without a ground for possession, simply by using the break clause.

The landlord must go through the correct procedure in applying to court, proving the ground, obtaining a court order and then using the court bailiffs to evict the tenant. If s/he does not do this, s/he may be guilty of illegal eviction. If the landlord tries to frighten a tenant into leaving her/his home, or the landlord evicts the tenant, the landlord is committing a criminal offence and can be prosecuted. The tenant may also be able to get her/his home back.


A landlord or her/his agent can be convicted of the criminal offence of harassment if s/he:-
• behaves in a way intended to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of her/his family; or

• persistently withholds or withdraws services which the residential occupier reasonably requires to occupy the premises as her/his home; and

• s/he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that what s/he is doing is likely to make the residential occupier either leave the premises or not use part of the premises or services s/he is entitled to use or not try to exercise her/his right to use them.
The tenant may be able to get some financial compensation for any acts of harassment s/he has suffered. If the landlord is successfully prosecuted for harassment, s/he will automatically be in breach of the implied term of allowing the tenant quiet enjoyment of her/his home. The landlord may also have broken other parts of the contract.

A landlord (or her/his agent) will commit the criminal offence of illegal eviction if s/he:-
• tries to evict a residential occupier from all or part of her/his home without following the required legal procedure; or

• behaves in a way intended to interfere with the peace or comfort of a residential occupier or members of her/his household and, as a result, the residential occupier gives up her/his home; or

• persistently withholds or withdraws services which a residential occupier reasonably requires to occupy the premises as her/his home and, as a result, s/he gives up her/his home.
A residential occupier who has been illegally evicted may:-
• try to be reinstated in her/his home; or

• claim damages. These can be general damages because of the landlord s breach of contract or damages based on any injury or loss of damage to her/his property; or statutory damages because of her/his illegal eviction.
Illegal eviction is a criminal offence under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 (as amended by the Housing Act 1988 ), punishable by up to two years imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine.



NOTICE


Notice for the assured shorthold procedure


The assured shorthold procedure must start with the landlord giving the tenant two months' notice in writing. More than two months' notice will be needed if the tenancy is quarterly or yearly, in other words if the rent is paid every quarter or every year. For a quarterly tenancy, three months' notice must be given; for a yearly tenancy, six months' notice must be given. However, these types of tenancy are relatively rare.

Although the notice, known as a section 21 notice, does not have to be in any particular form, there are certain rules the landlord must follow in order for the notice to be valid.

The notice can be given at any time during the fixed term, including at the beginning. It cannot be given before the date on which the tenancy starts. The notice must not expire before the end of the fixed term. If the tenant has, for example, a six month fixed-term agreement and the landlord wants the tenant to leave at the end of the fixed term, the notice must be given by the end of the fourth month of the tenancy.


A fixed term assured or assured shorthold tenancy agreement cannot be terminated early by the tenant unless the agreement allows this. A tenant who wants to leave the accommodation before the end of the fixed term should therefore check their agreement carefully. If the tenancy does not allow this and the landlord does not agree to an early termination, the tenant will remain bound by the agreement and liable for the rent for the whole period. However, if the tenant left and the landlord sued the tenant for rent for the remainder of the period, the landlord would have to show that s/he tried to mitigate any loss by trying to re-let the accommodation.


Does the assured shorthold tenant have to move out when a notice is given

An assured shorthold tenant does not have to leave even when the correct notice is given. S/he is entitled to remain in the property until the landlord obtains a court order to evict her/him and, if the tenant still does not want to go, until a court bailiff evicts her/him. However, if the tenant has another address to which s/he can move, s/he may decide to move out when notice is given. Such a tenant should also take into account the possibility of incurring legal costs if s/he decides to stay.

If a tenant does not have other property to move to and/or is likely to qualify for help under homelessness legislation, s/he should not move out until the local authority has confirmed in writing that it will rehouse her/him, or until s/he is sure that s/he has no defence to the possession proceedings. This is because there is a risk of being found intentionally homeless if s/he moves out earlier.

Notice to quit

The tenancy agreement may contain a term specifying the amount of notice the tenant must give the landlord if s/he wants to leave. If the tenancy is a fixed term tenancy, and the tenant is moving out on the exact day on which the fixed term expires, s/he is not required to give any notice.
A fixed term assured or assured shorthold tenancy agreement cannot be terminated early by the tenant unless the agreement allows this. A tenant who wants to leave the accommodation before the end of the fixed term should therefore check their agreement carefully. If the tenancy does not allow this and the landlord does not agree to an early termination, the tenant will remain bound by the agreement and liable for the rent for the whole period. However, if the tenant left and the landlord sued the tenant for rent for the remainder of the period, the landlord would have to show that s/he tried to mitigate any loss by trying to re-let the accommodation.

If the tenant has a fixed term assured or assured shorthold tenancy and wishes to move out on the day the agreement runs out, then s/he is not required to give notice to her/his landlord. This is because the contract between the landlord and tenant ends when the fixed term ends, and so the tenant no longer has any contractual obligation to give notice, or pay rent, to the landlord. If the tenant stays beyond the fixed term, a periodic tenancy begins.
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Old 11th March 2007, 15:42   #7 (permalink)
blacksheep1979
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Joa - sorry for any offence, I did say that half the time they don't have the foggiest. Not from personal experience but mates have been and have been given information that was not just inaccurate but totally wrong (more than one occasion).

If your flatmates really want to play hardball, they could refuse entry to the builders when they turn up on the grounds that it would be too intrusive whilst they are living there.
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Old 11th March 2007, 15:59   #8 (permalink)
Joa
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

blacksheep; no offence whatsoever, it's just old loyalties die hard
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Old 11th March 2007, 17:12   #9 (permalink)
den3371
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Default Re: Being asked to leave - URGENT!!

Joa and Balcksheep

Thank you for your valuable advice. I will pass the information you have given me. Fingers crossed thay can sort this out!!

Thanks again!
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