Help with a tenancy agreement

[idcormack]

This is a big plea to anyone with any legal knowledge or experience.

Long story short, our landlord has breached our tenancy agreement by turning up unannounced on our doorstep twice within the first 3 months of our tenancy. The rule states that he must provide 24hrs written notice to attend the property and also visit at an appropriate time.

We have written to terminate our agreement on the basis of 2 breaches of the contract.

The thing I need to know is, do we need a court order to terminate under this basis, or are we within our rights to do so as per our assured shorthold tenancy agreement. The property is managed by the agents. We have acknowledgement from our agents that the landlord has carried out these breaches and that they acted on an initial complaint from us by writing to him.

ta in advance

[MrShed]

To terminate a tenancy agreement, you simply move out and return vacant possession. However, you will not absolve yourself of the financial responsibilities of the agreement by terminating based upon these 2(fairly minor) breaches in the agreement. Not saying I agree, but this will be the case.

[idcormack]

Surely a breach is a breach?

No court order needed?

[MrShed]

No court order is needed, but it is a common misconception that a breach of an agreement(whether a tenancy agreement or standard contract) constitutes or allows the cancellation of the agreement or contract. You will still be liable for the rent.

[idcormack]

Im not argueing with you mate, so please dont take this the wrong way, but how can breach of a contract not constitute termination...

If we were to breach a rule in our agreement, they would rid of us like a shot.

I think its worth me saying at this stage that the agents have said nothing about breaches constituting termination, but should we wish to be released on the grounds of a breach, we would need a court order... surely this is false information?

[MrShed]

They wouldnt, as they would need a court order to be rid of you in the case of breach of agreement, and this is DISCRETIONARY with the county court. If an individual term in a contract is breached, but the main constitution of the contract is still intact(ie you have not been prevented living there etc etc) then you are entitled to any financial loss that may have occurred due to the breach, but you cannot use this to unilaterally terminate the contract - this is the case with any contract, including tenancies.

If you ended the tenancy due to the breach in contract, you end it by returning vacant possession. The onus is then upon the landlord to sue you in small claims for the rent owed. In small claims, the court would decide whether the breach is severe enough to allow a termination of your financial responsibilities of the contract based upon this breach. This is a minor infringement, probably just about the most minor you can, and so it would almost certainly not excuse you from the rent.

Just for some background info, can you tell us:

- When the landlord turned up, were you present in the property? Did you let him in? Did he let himself in?

- When did you move in?

- What is the fixed term of the contract?

[idcormack]

- When the landlord turned up, were you present in the property? Did you let him in? Did he let himself in? He turned up at 9pm on 4th November and at 8pm on 9th January. He rang the doorbell and banged on the door for 5 minutes each time, at which point we opened the door to him. We complained after the first occasion and were told he was breaching his terms and we were within our rights to refuse entry

- When did you move in? October 28th 2006

- What is the fixed term of the contract? 6 months

I know you will probably say just stay put, but in the meantime we have gone after another house to ensure we are not homeless come the end of the month. The only thing the letting agent appears to be holding us up on is the whole 'Court order' thing

[MrShed]

You are really really going to struggle to absolve yourself of your financial obligations on this basis. I am not saying dont move out, just that you will almost certainly still be liable for rent. This is of course if he pursues you for it. The fact that he did not enter the property without permission means it isnt even really a breach in my opinion - there is nothing to stop him turning up, just to prevent him entering. Regardless of the wording in the contract, this is how it is clearly intended, and how a judge will probably look at it.

Are there any other problems with the tenancy? It just seems extremely nitpicky to end the tenancy for this basis only, I suspect something else may have happened? Regardless, if you feel you must move out, I would suggest another method rather than just leaving - search through some of my old posts, I have a detailed response(somewhere!) about options available and your rights if wishing to end a tenancy early.

[idcormack]

Within our contract there is a clause that says the landlord needs to give us 24 hours written notice to come and visit the property, this can only be done under specific conditions and at reasonable times.

This is why we feel so strongly about it. The letting agents have even stated on both occasions that he is breaching by turning up, as they know nothing about it either.

In the situation that we just decided to pay off the last 2 months rent, would it be ok for us to pay them one months and tell them to keep the deposit as the other months?

[MrShed]

It would be OK, provided there are no damages. If there are damages, then they are entitled to sue you for the costs, and they would win provided they can prove the damages.

Can you post the exact wording of the term?

I've got to say you are cutting off your nose to spite your face here....theres principles, which are fine, but then theres being so strongly into them that you are going to financially lose at least one months rent, maybe more. Why not stay for a month, then leave and leave them the deposit? Then you have lost nothing(unless there are damages).

[Diggy]

Are you sure it says it he cannot turn up without giving 24hrs notice? I have rented for many years and and every tenancy agreement stated the owner/agent had the right to access given certain situation at 24hrs notice. Nothing to say they couldn't come and knock on the door? If he had let himself in with no notice that would be a different matter.

What did he give for the reason for his visit?

[idcormack]

There are no damages

The house we have gone for elsewhere has required us to put a deposit down. We stand to lose that if we stay here any longer and then have to find another place.

I know it seems trivial but its the manner in which he approaches us and just thinks he can come over when he likes... its not on

Contract states

4.3.10 Permit the landlord and or his agents or others, after giving 24 hours written notice and at reasonable hours of the daytime, to enter the property:

4.3.10.1 to view the state and condition and to execute repairs and other works upon the property or other properties

4.3.10.2 to show prospective purchasers the property at all times during the term and to erect a board to indicate that the property is for sale

4.3.10.3 to show propective tenants the property, during the last month of the term and to erect a board to indicate the property is to let

Our landlord came round on the 2nd occasion for no other reason than to demand we pay a gas bill that related to a period outside of our tenancy. We referred him to our agents as they act on our behalf

[MrShed]

OK the whole "tough love" bit. There is nothing in what you have just posted to state he cannot come to the property and knock on the door. Therefore there is no breach. Furthermore, I think it is quite surprising how much you think this is an issue. I was a tenant, and obviously knew my rights etc, and there is no one more against bad landlords than myself. But even I would not object to a landlord knocking on the door. If you stand to lose because of a deposit you have put down then that is your own fault for jumping the gun in doing so. This is a rant, but only to make you understand that your landlord has done little, if anything, wrong, and you CANNOT on this basis end your contract.

[idcormack]

ok man, i appreciate your help