Landlord broke our tenancy agreement today

[Violated]

I am living in a small, 2 bedroom terraced house and it is my first time renting. I have always been very aware of how important it is to be on good terms with your landlord, and as such, I have always paid my rent early (Via Bacs transfer) and have kept the house in good order.

Earlier this month my landlord made me aware that he was planning to change the sofa (which i was pleased about, the one standing was cream and discoloured before we moved in. A throw was always on it to cover these marks), add a dishwasher (which was excellent news), and add a new frdige freezer, which would require the removal of one of the surfaces in the kitchen. He told me he would be coming around the middle of december to add these new fittings and remove the old ones. I said it would be fine, as I was keen to be rid of the old fittings!

Today (16th december) I arrived home from xmas shopping, to find the front door of the house open, with a rented white van outside it. He entered the property without my permission and removed the old fittings and added the new ones.

I did not give permission for him to enter the property today, nor did I give permission for him to move the food from my old fridge to the new fridge. The house was untidy (left the house early to avoid the xmas rush, I left it untidy before he arrived, he left the house in a condition I would expect to find it in) and I myself was not happy with the state of repair it was in. Further to this, he has added a bookshelf to the 2nd bedroom, limiting the space in that room.

The tenancy agreement reads

"The Tenant agrees to allow the landlord or any other person authorised by the landlord to enter the property at all reasonable times of the day giving the tenant 24hours notice, to visit and examine the condition of the property and to carry out any repairs, maintenance, alterations or replace fixtures and fittings for the purpose of complying with any obligations imposed on the landlord by law".

So I take it, by entering the property without my permission, he has broken the tenancy agreement?

I feel violated to be honest, I always paid my rent early and always held a good relationship with the landlord I thought (up until now, maybe thats why he felt it ok to drop in unannounced?), but I'm very put out by the fact he has dropped into the house when I'm not there, moved food from one fridge to another (the new fridge was still cooling down when I entered the property he tells me, so moving the food across may have been unwise), and basically the house in a state I would not have wanted him to see it in (I typically keep the house immaculate, however like I say, we left early to beat the xmas rush). I'm very pleased that new fittings have been put in place and the old ones removed, but when I asked the landlord why he didn't contact us before he said "I tried to call the mobile and got no reply. I called the house phone and there was no reply there either". These statements are untrue for the instances when I was in the property, and as I would understand it, he should have either left a message, or sent a txt message as correspondence? Would I be right in thinking the onus is on him to contact me?

I'm quite upset by the whole ordeal, and am looking to change address after xmas, I do not want a repeat performance of what happened today.

What happens now that he has broken the tenancy agreement? has he broken it?

Many thanks to any advice given.

[Nightmare4banks]

violated,in reply to your post and in my opinion:

1.Your landlord is NOT allowed to enter the property without your consent.
2.Your landlord has trespassed by entering your property and thus could potentially be liable to pay you damages.In this particular case,his defence would be to improve your living conditions which you admit yourself he has done.
3.The landlord should give you reasonable notice if he wants to enter the property - at least 24 hours
4.However,you should be flexible (within reason) to give your landlord access.
5.If your landlord enters your home when you are away there is not much practically you can do about it.
6.However,if he attempts to enter your home when you are at home you should get a form of latch such that he cannot just walk in at ease.

I have posted before within the landlord & tenant section regarding this problematic topic which you should read through as there is plenty of useful information on this topic and other types of landlord/tenant associated problems and practical solutions.

By the way,I have two questions for you:

1.Has your landlord entered the property before without your consent?
2.How long have you been a tenant of this landlord?

The answers to the above questions should hopefully enable me to assist you further.

[Violated]

Thank you for your reply.

I've been with the landlord for 6 months. The encounter yesterday was the first time I have ever met him, all previous correspondence was via text message and telephone.He has never before entered the property without my consent (he lives over 100 miles away). I think it was his partner who was with him at the time also, I take it that if the landlord has given permission it's ok for her to be in the property.

There is a latch on the door already, for which I'm glad.

The "improvement of living conditions" is true, I suppose. We were doing just fine with how it was though.

I'm more than familiar with landlords being awkward with regards to replacing deposits when tenants leave the house. I keep the house in immaculate condition, but, if he were to try and withhold deposit without reasonable reason, would the events of yesterday work in my favour? I'm in no way intending to forfeit the deposit whatsoever, but I know of friends in the past who have lost deposits due to landlords who have counted on the ex tenants not kicking up a fuss.

I will be more than flexible with my landlord for sure, however, I, like anyone else, shudders at the thought of someone even seeing what's in my fridge, let alone someone touching it.

Many thanks for your reply.

[Nightmare4banks]

violated,in reply to your last post:

1.If your landlord has a series of unannouced visits yes this may go in your favour.

2.To be blunt and honest with you,you should see to let him know in the nicest way possible that you would like to be in the property when he wants access.

3.Regarding the deposit,make sure that you keep the place in such a way that it looks like it was one the first day of the tenancy.

4.Take photos of every room in the property should ther be a dispute further down the line.

5.Pay all the bills associated with the property and accordance to the terms laid down in the tenancy agreement.As some landlords will refuse to release deposits wihout proof of paying the bills.Some may argue a landlord has no right to do this I personally think he has a right within reason mainly the water and council tax - I have posted regarding this on another thread fairly recently backuped with the reasoning.

6.Have the final "settled amounts" bills available - give copies NOT ORIGINALS if needed to the landlord.

7.Anyway,from next April there will be a deposit scheme that is compulsory for landlords to sign up to in the hope to solve disputes between landlords and tenants swiftly and fairly.I have seen somebody post on this topic here as well within this section of this forum.

Finally,in my view if you follow what I have just mentioned about the access problem and deposit issues you should have minimal problems hopefully.

However,if you need any more help just ask.

[WilliamsSJ]

Hey,

To be blunt. From what you wrote, it sounds like he did tell you he'd be coming round. You wrote "He told me he would be coming around the middle of december to add these new fittings and remove the old ones. I said it would be fine, as I was keen to be rid of the old fittings!" To me thats advanced warning enough. He should have called you on the day before to book a time, granted! But he did say he tried to phone you that day.. You said you left the house "early" to go shopping.. So he couldn't get hold of you.

Think about it from his perspective. He's forewarned you! He then hires a van, (which sounds like he's not a full time landlord). He buys the new White Goods and loads the van up. He phones you! No answer......He phones you again....No answer........ He's got over 100 miles to drive with his wife (punishment enough) and has now crossed the point of no return as he's bought all this stuff, has nowhere to store it, and has the van for only a short ammount of time...

You try driving a 100 miles and then lifting a load of stuff in and out of a Van....And with his partner!!!!!! Its hard work!!!!!!!


The way I see it is:
1: He gave you notice that during the middle of Decmber he would be doing work!! He should have given you a specific date to avoid upsetting you ike this, yes! But he gave notice, thats a fact that you admit!

2:The landlord can enter into "his" property whether you like it or not if he gives correct notice, or shows evidence of attemting to give notice (call records, letter copies etc)

3: He's done his best to imrpove your living standards, at his expense! Ok your feeling violated, but he's taken care to transfer your food to the new fridge!!! I know landlords who wouldn't even open the door. Just drag the thing out and dump it down the tip!!

4: He fitted a shelf thus dramatically reducing the size of a room?????Thats either one hell of a big shelf, or a bloomin tiny room!!! Its his house, he fits things where he wants. You ask him permisiion, not the other way round!!!!

I really get the impresion from what you've written that you're being a bit harsh on the poor bloke...I've seen and heard of far far far worse situaitons.. Be grateful that he's a good landlord and not someone who does'nt give a damn????

PS: He brought his wife into your house!!!!!! He can bring a brass band with him if he gives notice!!!!

[demon_x_slash]

I would be absolutely furious if my landlord had done this. Williams, a landlord MUST give 24 hours notice, not 'ring up on the day' 'sometime mid-December' - it wouldn't have mattered that the OP had gone out shopping early, then; the OP would have been forewarned and made themselves available. It may be the landlord's property, but it it the OP's home, and s/he is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of that home. I would not be able to enjoy the peace of my home if I was on edge, not knowing whether the landlord is going to 'just pop by' every five minutes or not.

If the OP had been given 24hrs notice as is REQUIRED, s/he would have been able to move food to an alternative location, instead of everything sitting out on the worktop getting warm/defrosting while he faffs about plugging things in.

He does sound like a 'good' landlord, who cares about the tenant's needs. However, the landlord is also bound by requirements, to respect tenants' rights, as laid down in the tenancy agreement. It's not good enough to be well-meaning; they have to stay within the bounds of the contract as well.

[WilliamsSJ]

I've been a tenant for many years, a landlord now, and a property manager with an ample portfolio... Yes I agree he should have given more specific notice, and maybe he did. He still made the effort to call her prior!!!! At the least!!!

I was actually being devils advocate, as it seems like this landlord isn't the most experienced of landlords. I often get landlords coming to me after experiencing somthing like this situation, and asking me to manage their property for them!

There are two very different sides to any situation, and I'm sure the landlord has his explanation. I don't howevere think he "breached contract"

1: He gave "notice" (although not specific) that during "mid December" he would access the property to fit new and exchange old furniture and white goods etc!!

2: The tenant doesn't need to give the landlord "permission", as he has the right, with notice, to access the property himself and with anyone else he likes (hence the brass bank comment)!

3: If he did call you and you didn't answer, he could have (as I always do) recorded the call time and date on his phone. Records can be obtained after the fact of dialled numbers from most line providers. If he did call you then he made ample effort in the eyes of the law!!

4: You got a new sofa, fridge freezer, dishwasher and shelving..... Your lucky your landlord is doing that....really lucky???

[demon_x_slash]

Originally Posted by WilliamsSJ

I was actually being devils advocate, as it seems like this landlord isn't the most experienced of landlords. I often get landlords coming to me after experiencing somthing like this situation, and asking me to manage their property for them!
There are two very different sides to any situation, and I'm sure the landlord has his explanation. I don't howevere think he "breached contract"

Devil's advocate is always a helpful position to play, it makes the OP aware of what the landlord can counter with. However:

Originally Posted by WilliamsSJ

1: He gave "notice" (although not specific) that during "mid December" he would access the property to fit new and exchange old furniture and white goods etc!!

The notice wasn't specific, and cannot therefore be rightly called notice. Notice should allow you to prepare for a visit, to make sure you're available/not in the shower/not doing the housework naked/not on holiday. If the landlord did not give 24-48 hours notice of when he specifically would be visiting, then he has infracted the terms of the tenancy. I don't think it's worth making a fuss about this, don't get me wrong; he seems like a considerate landlord and therefore worth trying to keep in his good books. He just needs to be gently reminded that the contract is there to protect them both and that it needs to be adhered to for a harmonious relationship.

Originally Posted by WilliamsSJ

2: The tenant doesn't need to give the landlord "permission", as he has the right, with notice, to access the property himself and with anyone else he likes (hence the brass bank comment)!

See above; no proper notice.

Originally Posted by WilliamsSJ

3: If he did call you and you didn't answer, he could have (as I always do) recorded the call time and date on his phone. Records can be obtained after the fact of dialled numbers from most line providers. If he did call you then he made ample effort in the eyes of the law!!

No, he didn't; phoning on the day, when you are outside the property with a van, is not proper notice - the OP states that it was on the day itself that the LL attempted to contact hir.

Originally Posted by WilliamsSJ

4: You got a new sofa, fridge freezer, dishwasher and shelving..... Your lucky your landlord is doing that....really lucky???

Yes, I agree - we'd love a brand new kitchen. We can barely get an contortionist dwarf in our fridge/freezer That's why I don't advocate coming down like a ton of bricks on this; as I said, he just needs a gentle reminder that the tenant is entitled to at least 24hrs notice. I would also feel violated if my landlord came into our flat without our permission - you get visions of him rummaging through your knicker drawer, scanning your open mail, or helping himself to your biscuits Even though our LL wouldn't, luckily he's great...

[Violated]

Thanks for the replies guys.


I hope I haven't been misunderstood. Like i say, I have maintained a great relationship with my landlord to date, and as such, I've been very lucky to have such a great landlord so far. I'm very grateful for the new white goods and the exchanged old sofa.

All i wanted was a call for him to tell me when he'd be coming round so I could tidy up basically, make him a cup of tea, and ask him if he
had any concerns. He's been a fantastic landlord thus far, and I've always thought up until now we've had a good relationship. I'm not utterly distraught with him or anything like that, there are lots of "what if's" if I hadn't been out shopping etc.


I was just concerned with the tenancy agreement being broken what i could expect from the future, and other concerns people have had in similar circs. I have since then read other threads on the subject.

Thanks for all the advice!

[Violated]

SO, these matters took an interesting turn today when i received a recorded delivery letter from the landlord, with the new inventory and some other interesting details.

My first issue is thus, the new inventory has listed the new details, however, it states that upon entry the garden "lawn tidy, plants tended"
. This simply was not the case at all. Upon inspection of the house initially, the Letting agent commented on how the lawn needed mowing and how the garden was in need of mowing. This never happened, and I foolishly moved into the house before it was achieved, meaning that the garden was overgrown when I moved in. When the landlord visited me at the above date, he did not mention to me anything with regards to the garden. In the letter sent, he has brought to my attention 2 points. the first point reads

"The back garden is overgrown and in need of some attention". The equipment to do this is at the house, however, it is the 11th of January. The garden is unfit for mowing due to the wet. I will be tidying it before we leave the house, however, would it be unfair of me to deny signing the inventory that the garden was in good repair when we moved in? Could i request his evidence of this? I have no evidence otherwise, but if I could record that I will be attending to the garden as a "goodwill gesture" would it be unfair of me to do that?

The second part of the letter has me very concerned. It states "the chest of drawers in the Main bedroom appears to have suffered some damage form water being spilt on the surface due to the presence of a fish tank. please ensure the damage is repaired".

I will be repairing the chest of drawers, and arranging for them to be repaired. The damage is purely cosmetic, and would it be unfair for me to sand the surface, and then re-apply an acceptable varnish, as was before I moved in?


My main concern with regards to the second section of the letter, is as to why he was in my bedroom? He gained entry to the property without my premission and without warning, and was there, to replace white goods and a sofa in the living room. Is it unfair of me to request what possible purpose there was for him to be in the bedroom, when I'm not there, without my permission? As I'm sure anyone would be, I am quite upset that this has happened. I am totally unwilling to lose any of the deposit on the rent (as it is mine, and I have done my hardest to maintain the property)
, and I feel that the way i've been treated during my stay at the property has been unfair because of these instances (I will be relocating because of this).

What should I do in this instance? Any help gratefully received.

[Cpt Black]

Have a read of the bottom of page 22 point 3.32 of this:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D...E/0/oft356.pdf

[Violated]

Originally Posted by Cpt Black

Have a read of the bottom of page 22 point 3.32 of this:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D...E/0/oft356.pdf

It's on page 18 on mine, point 3.32 that is?

So it seems like the OFT would back me up on the tenancy agreement a well then? Because he broke the rules laid down in the tenancy agreement by himself?

Thanks for taking the time to check out my thread.

[Cpt Black]

As I understand it, the landlord has to give you 24 hours notice (preferably in writing, though I'm not sure if its mandatory) to enter the property. Presumably to give you the chance to be there when he turned up - to make sure he didnt look in private drawers etc. It does seem fair to be able to check the condition of items in the inventory as long as its not too often - you have a right to liv there hassle free. One quote from that OFT guide is "It may be his house, but its your home"
Also, regarding the general clealiness of the house, your only responsibilty is to make sure there is no damage to his belongings other than general wear and tear (or any damage is recitified or payed for) and things like not attracting rodents if thats in your contract. Although from your earlier statements this shouldn't apply to you.

With the lawn, what does your initial inventory say? And what is the cause in the contract about the upkeep of it?

Hope this helps
Cpt Black

[Violated]

The initial inventory states the items in the garden (mower, strimmer etc), but does not mention a lawn whatsoever. When I moved in it was overgrown.



To be honest, I'm considering just sucking it up and getting on with it. Just write a letter back saying that the lawn wasn't tidy and that I want that to be noted and I'll keep it cut short anyway (when it's dry), that I'll have the top of the dresser sanded down and then revarnished, and that I'm more than happy with everything, and make a comment with regards to 24 hours notice and cite the OFT guidelines.

I dont want to get stiffed out of my deposit (I want it all back when I leave, it's mine after all and I am maintaining the house as I would like it maintained) but at the same time moving house right now would be a real bind as my girlfriend is having some really tricky exams right now, and will be for a lot of this year.

What do I do now though? He'll be expecting the inventory back, and I'll need to sign it, but I can't put a signature to it if I disagree right?