The Landlord, The Agent and the Fraud Officers

[nikkiuk]

Hi,


Here we go, this is a long but I just hope someone can find the time to read through and help us out. My problem is that the local council stopped my housing benefit over 3 months ago because they said there was a discrepancy with who actually owned the property. We rent from an agent and he has been receiving the housing benefit checks but the actual property is not his.

The council asked for proof that the agent was authorised to act on the owners behalf so I chased the agent up and got some documents and handed them in alnng with all the claim forms as they made us go through the whole claim process again even though we've been therer for over 2 years with no problems.

The next thing theres 2 guys from the local council fraud department appear at my door. My partner invited them in and they basically grilled him for half an hour asking about the Agent and the landlord and why the Agents company deposits money every month into my partners account.

My partner explained that his uncle is a property developer who helped us rent the property in the first place, his uncle witnessed the lease and made sure everything was above board and ended up striking up working relationship with the agent.
6 months after we moved into the property we fell into serious financial difficulty and couldn't meet the shortfall on the rent which is £160 a month. The only thing we had was a half decent car which we ended up selling to my partners uncle, he didn't give us straight cash for it, instead, we told him to pay our shortfall because if we had a lump sum we would inevitably dig into it and end up back where we started.


The fraud officers have been sitting on our claim for 6 weeks, my parnter has phoned them up asking what is happening and they start asking him the same questions they asked him when they were here 6 weeks ago. the agent went in to visit the council as he was fuming when I told him that they were implying he was a fraudster and they were put straight by the Agent who took in all the necessary documents and contact details of the Owner.

Now I've been told by the Agent that if it doesn't get sorted soon he'll have to evict us because it's not his property and he still has to pay the owner his money regardless. I know for a fact that if my parnters uncle wasn't doing business with this guy we would have been evicted weeks ago. As it stands we owe him 3 months rent, which is soon to be 4.


What can we do about this?

[MrShed]

HB is not my key area I'm afraid, so know very little about it. But, surely if you get the housing benefit paid direct to you, it does not matter who it subsequently goes to? I assume before it was being paid direct to the agent? Can you not ask to have payments made to you? I sympathise, not a very nice situation to be in.

[nikkiuk]

I could Mr.Shed but they've suspended the benefit pending this so called Fraud investigation, but they haven't done a thing in 6 weeks and they've had 100% compliance and each discrepancy answered and backed up with documentation. So I don't know what else to do.

The agent is being fair with me but he pointed out in my lease that it says he can evict if he doesn't get rent paid for 2 months in a row, this is month 3 going into 4 so I'mpretty much running on fumes as my one month up front and deposit would only cover me for 2 months rent.

I'll phone the council tomorrow and see what is happening, I'm 5 months pregnant and I have a 16 month old daughter and I don't need this stress right now.

[MrShed]

If they are unwilling to pay the payments direct to you, then it would seem that the "fraud" they are investigating is more than just who is receiving the payments.

[Nightmare4banks]

Nikkiuk,

Pesonally I would complain at a very high level because you should not become in the end homeless because of something that is not your fault.

[gizmo111]

Make an appointment with your local Shelter office. They are very good and will deal with HB on your behalf.

[nikkiuk]

Thanks for the Advice everyone. My partner called the council up today and spoke with the guy who is dealing with my claim. It is now crystal clear that we are being given the run around and the investigator doesn't give a damn.

He asked my partner AGAIN for contact numbers of people which were not only given to the investigator 6 weeks ago but they were given in the form of signed documentation which he should surely have available to him in an organised case file. We've jumped through every hoop for this guy and he's now just fobbing us off saying he's not happy with some of the details he's been given and won't ellaborate on what they are.

My partner said to him that because everyone involved has complied and has given their contact details and signed confirmation explaining their inviolvment in this situation, it is now down to the investigator to show where the fraud lies instead of allowing this to drag on and stagnate. The investigator just faffed us off saying that he's not in a position to discuss the case with us.


I'm raging, this has been going on for too long and we're the only real losers in all of this because we'll end up evicted and homeless with a bill for 4 months rent, 2 of which we'll pay with our month up front and deposit which will leave us broke.

I'll call Citizens advice and the Shelter.org and see what they can do for us. I'm gutted.

[nicktw]

Hi

The situation is that you may well be getting the run around but the Local Authority have a duty of care when spending tax payers money - which is what Housing Benefit is. They are probably investigating whether there is a link between your partner and the property owner. The owner may well be a company and they will then look at links towards the directors or officers of the Company. Housing Benefit is generally not payable to a relative of a Claimant unless there is a strict and I mean very STRICT commercial agreement and rthe Local Authoriy are satisfied that this is the case. The discretion is upon the Local Authority whether to believe or not. The fact that money appears to be coming back into your partners account would I think, in anybodys eyes, raise suspicion. In hindsight it might have been better to have asked your uncle not to pay money into your accounts but easy to be wiser after the facts as they say.

I am afraid the Fraud Officer will take his time but I seem to remember somewhere that they have to interview under caution within 28 days and report the matter for prosecution within 56 days of the decision to prosecute being made.

Obviously if you to be served with an eviction notice (Notice to Quit) on the property then you would have a claim against the Local Authority to rehouse you. They can hardly claim that you are intentionally homeless when they are still investigating because until they have made a decision to prosecute you are still legally innocent. If they move to evict after deciding to prosecute then they will house you temporarily pending the result of any hearing.

My advice, if there really is nothing for the Fraud Officer to discover invoke maximum publicity use local papers, local TV and write to your MP. That usually pushes them to make a decision one way or the other pretty quickly.

Sorry I cant be more positive but on the information available I have taken a balanced view of matters.

Good luck

[nikkiuk]

Thanks very much for the Advice nick and I appreciate that from the information available you have chosen to take a balanced view. The fact that the shortfall is being covered by an employee of the agent is quite irregular but has been given a valid and solid explanation which has been backed up with signed documentation, compliance and transparancy, by everyone in question.

The Fraud Officer has had the case running for over 8 weeks now and has not Interviewed anybody involved under caution. I acquiried a copy of the Code of Concuct for Counter-Fraud Investigators and it seems he is in breach of conduct in more than one area.

The Code of Conduct states that he cannot imply that he could act in any way that exceeds his actual powers. He has done this on more than one occasion. He has misled my agent by telling him that he doesn't do housecalls when my agent asked him to visit his offices, this is nonsense because he visited my house, not only that, it's his job to investigate which would surely mean getting out of his office and actually knocking on peoples doors.

He has also failed to pursue all reasonable lines of inquiry including those that would support my case as he hasn't even attempted to contact the owner of the property in the 8 weeks that he has been conducting the inquity, which he admitted on the phone, he's not contacted my partners uncle either, and he has also failed to ensure that all material which may be relevant is recorded and retained because he has asked for details and documents on more than one occasion that has already been given to him 6 weeks ago.

I guess what I'm saying is that this guy has took one look at out situation and because theres one irregularity he's just struck us down without thoroughly investigating the case.

I called the homless unit at our local Council and they are looking into it and will send us housing application forms out. I also contacted the Citizens advice but they have not returned my call yet. My only other avenue is to contact the Scottish shelter organisation and see if they may be able to offer some guidance.


Thanks again for the help.

[StudentInDebt]

A friend of mine works for a council and he tells me there is nothing that council officers hate more than councilors asking questions about their department. Write to your councilor and chief exec of your council, attend council and community meetings where they will be present and ask them directly what they are doing to help you.

[Bramski]

...

[nicktw]

Glad it all worked out for you in the end.

Enjoy Christmas

Nick