landlord and council tax.

[gilesdm]

wow, two posting for me in one day...

Anyway, I have an issue with my ex landlord that I could do with some help on...

I moved into a flat and was told over the phone that the council tax was included with the rent...

I move in and never heard anything from the council and paid my rent on time. I was never asked to sign a lease or any sort of contract with the landlord.

I stayed in the flat for a year and when I was about to leave the landlord sent someone to the flat (they just came in by the way with a key without knocking or anything.) they asked me and my girlfriend to back date a contract from the date we moved in and we refused (I am sure that’s illegal, how can you agree to do something that’s in the past) anyway, a few month later after moving out we get a letter from the council asking us to pay £1,300. We told them that the landlord said it was included in the rent but the landlord denied this...The council made us pay or they were going to take us to court.

Do you think that we could take our ex landlord to court for the money, or at least threaten to take action if they don’t pay?

If it was written on paper then I would do it but as it was a verbal agreement over the phone I am not sure that I have a leg to stand on...

I am so angry with the whole thing as me and my girlfriend have really been screwed over.

Any advice would be really greatly appreciated.


(sorry, i have posted this in the wrong place...doh)

[gilesdm]

I have an issue with my ex landlord that I could do with some help on...

I moved into a flat and was told over the phone that the council tax was included with the rent...

I move in and never heard anything from the council and paid my rent on time. I was never asked to sign a lease or any sort of contract with the landlord.

I stayed in the flat for a year and when I was about to leave the landlord sent someone to the flat (they just came in by the way with a key without knocking or anything.) they asked me and my girlfriend to back date a contract from the date we moved in and we refused (I am sure that’s illegal, how can you agree to do something that’s in the past) anyway, a few month later after moving out we get a letter from the council asking us to pay £1,300. We told them that the landlord said it was included in the rent but the landlord denied this...The council made us pay or they were going to take us to court.

Do you think that we could take our ex landlord to court for the money, or at least threaten to take action if they don’t pay?

If it was written on paper then I would do it but as it was a verbal agreement over the phone I am not sure that I have a leg to stand on...

I am so angry with the whole thing as me and my girlfriend have really been screwed over.

Any advice would be really greatly appreciated.

[Money4Nothing]

I'm a landlord - and I think the law is quite specific about this...
If the premises is a single building or block of flats ie. not subdivided into flats/bedsits then the council tax is the responsibility of the tenant.
In the case where a single house/accomodation has been altered to become seperate accomodation such as bedsits the landlord is responsible, and as such he can include the council tax charge in with the rent...
This obviously has to be agreed at the start - and you can't be forced to sign anything after an event to cover him for his mistake not getting it sorted at first.
Did you have a copy of this agreement?
How did the council know that you were living there - and how come they didn't send you a bill in a whole year?

m4n

edited: didn't read that you hadn't signed the post dated agreement.

[gilesdm]

Thanks for that, I thought I was in trouble but you have basically confirmed that for me (of course there is no need to be sorry, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.)

We have been royally fu***** over and it so frustrating.

I think we might threaten legal action and see what they do...but this might just be a waste of time.

[buzby]

From memory, the Council don't have to take you to court - they have an exemption that allows them to make a statutory addition if the amount demanded is not paid within a certain timeframe. That said, without a tenancy contract to establish who owes what, at the end of the day the property owner should be liable as he owns the heritable interest. Especially if he cannot show proof that the renter was expected to pay for the council tax seperately. IF it was me, I'd write to the council saying that your CT liability was paid to the owner inclusive with his rental fees, leaving them to prove otherwise.

[Money4Nothing]

Yeah, I suppose if the owner doesn't have anything signed by the tenant - you could tell them anything...
You could even say that you weren't living there - lol =)
I don't know whether you could claim that you thought the council tax was inclusive, unless you had it in writing.
I'm assuming that the flat is a purpose built flat, and not a renovation/changed building as in the previous post I made.

[Money4Nothing]

Additionally - you wouldn't expect the gas or electric to be paid in with your rent unless you lived in a bedsit or something...
I think this is the argument that the owner would use - In my opinion I would have thought that unless you can prove otherwise the council will expect whoever is occupying the premises to pay the bill.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by Money4Nothing

whoever is occupying the premises to pay the bill.

But as there wasn't a bill until after-the-event, the tenant naturally expected his council tax to be inclusive with the rental he paid! There's no issue of avoidance, just that it appears the Landlord is aparrently avoiding his responsibilities. As to whoever occupies, pays - not so. Unoccupied properties by definition are the responsibility of the owner - usually after a short period of non-use, so this isn't cut-n-dried!

[blacksheep1979]

I'm afraid you odn't have aleg to stand on, this is why a contract is important for both parties.

[gilesdm]

1) the flat was purpose built.

2) we have agreed to pay the council tax because we got a court summons..

3) we lived in the property for a year and it was only after we had left that the landlord passed on our details for the council to contact us..

4) The landlord admitted that a woman used to work for them (the woman who told me and my girlfriend that the council tax was included) who messed everything up and told lots of different people different things, but she has been fired for doing that....


So, whats is my next step...do i right to the landlord saying that if they dont pay by X date i will take the matter further or just forget about it?

[callumsgran]

this is tricky, generally speaking the onus i believe is on the letting agent or tenant (if no agent) to inform the council of who is living in the property! as you were told (albeit incorrectly by your landlords spokesperson?) that it was included in the rent then i would assume the landlord is liable for it! Did the cost of the rent reflect the price of inclusive council tax?

[gilesdm]

"did the cost of the rent reflect council tax?"

not really sure, we took it because it was a good price....

[Bookworm]

2 threads merged. Please don't post twice in different places, it makes things really difficult to follow and creates more work for nothing, thanks for understanding.

[gilesdm]

sorry bookworm.

my mistake.