Letting Agents Admin Charge

[analyst]

Newbie here, just finding my way around.

My son, at Uni was paying his rent by Direct Debit (£303 pm) and overpaid one month after he left, because he failed to cancel in time with his bank.

The letting agents were playing silly games with him about the refund till I did a "Mr Angry" on the phone to them and got a cheque the following day - less £25 admin fee for the refund.

Now it would appear that such a fee was expressly provided for in the original contract he signed. But it is my feeling that this was an unfair term, given that no costs were incurred by them, other than a cheque returned with a compliments slip - having sat for 2 months in their bank account.

How might I best go about getting this unfair charge refunded?
Is there a stock letter (for modification) which I could use here?

Cheers all

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[Rich44]

It doesnt cost £25 to issue a cheque and post it to them I suggest you write to them with a very harsh letter explaining its an unlawful penalty and ask for the money and also enclose an invoice for the interest plus charges for each and every letter and phone call

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[blacksheep1979]

Was your son paying by direct debit as you say or by standing order - if it was standing order yes maybe he should have canceled earlier but this is an unacceptable charge, if it was direct debit - issue them with a £25 charge ontop of their admin fee for taking too much money, whats good for the goose is good for the gander

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[analyst]

OK guys, thanks for the responses, I shall sharpen my tools.

Is there any statute, regulation or code of practice governing this area?

Does a property letting agent who handles clients' payments/bonds etc., come under any financial regulations?


Hope you understand, when I prepare to do battle I like to be armed to the teeth, even if it is about a paltry sum.

[blacksheep1979]

Don't discuss anything with them just state that there is no provission in the contract for that penalty fee (especially if it was a direct debit and THEY took the money) and that you want it back within 14 days or court.

Again - was it a direct debit or a standing order? As with a direct debit they have to take/request the money and so they are at fault and have no leg to stand on. If it was a standing order they still don't have a leg to stand on but they will try argue it.

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[analyst]

I've since had a chance to track my son's bank details and established that it was a Standing Order.

Now I have drafted a letter, before your last post Blacksheep, and I'd be happy to hoist it up here or wherever, if anyone wants to give it a quick run-through I'd be grateful.

It does address the point that they claim there was a clause in the contract he signed agreeing to this fee. However, I would argue that was an unfair term of contract and an unfair penalty fee so I want the money anyway.

Any takers?

[watccoe75]

hoist away

[analyst]

This one

Without Prejudice

Dear Sirs

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982
Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

** *******,****** Manchester

Thank you for your cheque no: xxxxx, value £278.33 in part payment of the refund due on the standing order overpayment in July 2006. This leaves a sum of £25.00 outstanding which I note you have identified on the accompanying compliments slip as “minus £25 Admin Fee”.

Your charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

Notwithstanding any provision to that effect you may include in the letting contract, any such clause constitutes a breach of the above Regulations and I am sure that you are only too well aware that an unfair term in a consumer contract is not binding on the consumer.

I am sure you will wish to honour your obligations in this matter and I therefore give notice to you of my demand for payment of the outstanding sum within 14 days. Failure to make payment within the said period will mean that I shall pursue action for recovery which will inevitably increase the costs added to the claim.

I look forward to receiving your payment in full at your earliest convenience.

Edit: To show latest revision

[blacksheep1979]

take from the templates library (roughly)

Your charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

slip that in somewhere and they will know you've done your homework and mean business

	Materials library Follow this link to our library where you can use our templates and other references free of charge. You must be registered to use them - but registration is free.

[analyst]

Done

Thanks for that blacksheep. Will be ready for posting to-morrow, unless anyone has any other bright suggestions.

Is it essential at this stage to send it recorded, given that time is not a problem and that if they really did insist it had gone astray it could easily be resent - at worst.

[blacksheep1979]

If you send it recorded they will probably take more notice/think you are more serious. For the extra 65p or so its probably worth it

[watccoe75]

I think you will be getting a cheque for £25 in the very near future.

[analyst]

Originally Posted by watccoe75

I think you will be getting a cheque for £25 in the very near future.

Ah, but it may not end there.

I suspect that there may be quite a lot of students in Manchester who have suffered from this little ploy. It is, after all, one of the biggest student letting agencies in the area.

Now, if the others were to discover a simple way to get their money back . . .

[blacksheep1979]

It wasn't a agency in Withington was it - they tried something similarish to this to a friend of mine?

[analyst]

Oooooooooooohhh! Young man, how abso-bloody-lutely spot on you are.

A right bunch of unhelpful, arrogant, awkward, bumtious, obnoxious, bar-stewards they are too.

Need taking down a peg or three.

Now, it occurs to me, don't the OFT take a view on the Estate Agents Act 1979, particularly with regard to handling clients money?

So, if enough people were to complain about Homes 4 U (Withington) Limited, not to mention anyone by name, the OFT could form the view that they were not fit and proper persons to conduct this business.

Hmmm . . . they could even e-mail ray.hall@oft.gsi.gov.uk if they felt so inclined.

[meagain]

I don't think the OFT really care about who might be "fit and proper" people to carry out any sort of business any more.

[blacksheep1979]

don't worry they are about to lose out quite a bit - manchester student homes are removing them from their approved list and may be blacklisting them, also some other organisation was supposed to be looking into it - may have been council related.

[analyst]

Ah well, as expected 14 days are up and not any response from this cowboy outfit.

Time to move on to next phase methinks.

To be honest, I think this arrogant bunch of clowns will go all the way to court and I'm just about to invest in a set of files to sharpen my teeth (insert sharp-fanged smiley here)

So, I guess next move would be an LBA huh?

Anything special to go in it or just a stock item here?

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[meagain]

Originally Posted by blacksheep1979

Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 ...

I assume you mean the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

[analyst]

This is what I propose sending now, modified from the banking template, your observations please:

xx October 2006

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sirs,

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

xxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx Road, Withington

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 11th September 2006.
I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to the abovementioned contract in relation to administration are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that it was opened. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the contract in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise.

I calculate that you have taken £25.

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

I note that the Office of Fair Trading is unable to trace a record of registration under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 at your company address, which they say they would expect for such a business. Nevertheless, it is my intention to make complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

Yours faithfully,




xxxxxxxxxx

Homes 4 U (Withington) Limited
Davenport Buildings
414 Wilmslow Road
Withington
Manchester
M20 3BW

Does it seem a bit weak to complain to the OFT about £25 - hardly gonna make 'em jump to declare the bar-stewards 'not a fit and proper person', is it?



Edit:
Latest revision in accordance with recommendations (see Blacksheep below)

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.