More Deposit Troubles

[russellhq]

I stayed in rented accomodation (in Scotland) from March '05 to June '06 which a property manager looked after on behalf of the landlord. During that time the property was sold and a new landlord took seat. I was never informed of this and only found out when I was leaving. Should I have been given the name and address of the new landlord when he bought the flat?

I have requested several times for my deposit from the property manager but he keeps telling me that he is in dispute with the landlord over charges the landlord is claiming from the deposit. The property manager says he doesn't want to give the landlord any of my money I instructed him to have the landlord send me all the details (recipts for work etc.) for what he wants to charge and to give him my contact information as it's taking him too long to do anything. He said he's done this over 2 weeks ago but I am yet to receive anything. I have asked him for the landlords information and should get it sometime this week along with the bill (this is not a detailed breakdown) the landlord is wanting to charge.

I am quite happy to pay my fair share, including:
Cigarette burns on carpet (this was brand new when we moved in but it was the cheap cream type carpets you get and they want to charge £200)
Oil stain in cupboard carpet
Broken Lamp (I assume I would only pay a % of the new cost otherwise it would be seen as betterment?)

The landlord also wants to charge for a cigarette burn on one of the mattresses. My issue is that these mattresses were the cheapest i've ever seen and were completely worn out after a years use so it does not seem fair that they can charge me for a new mattress. I had 2 flatmates at the time who were witness to everthing in the flat. Is this as good as photographic evidence?

Finally, no inventory was taken and I was not asked to sign anything. When I moved the flat was completely unfurnished. During the first 5 days they completly furnished the flat but took no inventory or asked me to sign anything.

Thanks for any helpfull information you may have.

[blacksheep1979]

If there was no signed inventory on moving in/out then do not admit to any of the damages.

Who was the tennancy agreement with, the landlord or the letting agents/property manager?

[russellhq]

Tennancy agreement was with the property manager.

I've allready admitted verbally over the phone that I caused the damages to the property manager. I have no problem in paying for what I damaged but I do have a problem in being overcharged and expected to pay unreasonable costs. i.e. £200 for oil stain in carpet in small closet that I am sure could be replaced in its entirety for a fraction of that and for a cigarette burn on a worn out mattress that was only fit for dumping.

[russellhq]

Also i mentioned on the phone to the property manager that I would not be paying for wear and tear and any charges must be backed up with full receipts but he came back at me saying that the landlord is entitled to deduct from the deposit for dilapidations. When is something wear and tear and when does it become a dilapidation?

[blacksheep1979]

If contract was with property manager then I would be suggesting to him that if he doesn't return your full deposit or a reduced deposit with full receipts within a reasonable period of time (14 days) then you will be persuing the matter through the small claims court.

The thing with admitting liability is it then gives them carte blanche to replace the item at your expense.

[russellhq]

Originally Posted by blacksheep1979

The thing with admitting liability is it then gives them carte blanche to replace the item at your expense.

Really? I though they would only be entitled to a portion of the cost to replace with a new item?

[blacksheep1979]

In theory yes but they will take any admission as a right to replace at your cost, their reasoning will be it was fine before and you have put them at an expense to replace it. Never admit responsibility to anything - and definately don't put it in writing, however if it comes to court do not lie to the judge or on any of the court forms.

[russellhq]

Had an interesting call from the landlord yesterday. She told me she's having trouble getting her last rent payments from the property manager. He hasn't paid her for April or May, telling her that I moved out at the end of March. I instructed her to send me all the information relating to the damages she wishes to charge for and I will look through them. I also informed her that an inventory was never carried out and that I had never signed one. She went a bit quiet when I said that! Though I will pay what I think is a fair amount for the damage I caused, a couple broken cups/glasses, carpet stains/burns etc..

Also, at the end of the tennancy I was never given the oppotunity to witness a leaving inventory/damage assesment or a chance to put right any defects e.g. carpet stains. I thought I was supposed to get these opportunities?

[blacksheep1979]

Sounds like the agents are trying to play both sides off against the middle - talk to the landlord about taking joint action against them, if they see that they've been rumbled by both you and the landlord they may cave quickly

[amartin1908]

This "agency" in scotland wasnt letting solutions was it??? If it is, they are well known for these type of underhanded tactics. Your contract is with the letting agent so it is up to him to return your deposit and whatever their arguments with the owner are, are of no concern to you. Maybe its worthwhile pointing out to this guy that your in direct contact with the owner and that you understand your rent has not been forwarded on to them!!! May make him take some action.

[russellhq]

I sent the following on 9/10/06 to the landlord and letting agent using a template I found on the forum:

Dear Sir,

I’m writing to you with regards to my tenancy at RENTED PROPERTY ADDRESS.

As you are most probably aware, I have requested the return of my deposit several times from LETTING AGENT in view of the fact that the premises were left in an acceptable state of cleanliness and, allowing for fair wear and tear, in a state they were encountered.

I would like to remind you that as a tenant I have rights, not only obligations. You, as a landlord have obligations, besides your rights. This is also in relation to deposits. Deposits must not be regarded by landlords as an extra rent only to be returned reluctantly or used to actually improve the condition of the property.

You should be aware, that the amount retained should only be equivalent to an amount needed to replace “like with like”. For example, if the carpet was a bit worn out at the start of the tenancy, the landlord cannot expect to retain the amount that would pay for brand new carpet.

The onus is on you to prove that there were circumstances justifying the retention of all or part of the deposit, not on myself to prove that I am entitled to its return. Unfortunately, you have not provided any relevant evidence.

You should have also allowed me the opportunity of remedying any defect before charging for it – you should in any event have prepared a dilapidation schedule and you should have the relevant tradesman available to at least have given a written quotation (not an estimate) to enable you to readily account for deductions.

You cannot withhold the deposit for the general “wear and tear”. Landlords must redecorate the property from their own expenses and tenants are only held liable for damages, which create additional costs to the landlord. Deposits are not there to provide a redecoration fund.

I would advise you to look on the ARLA web site which has a very useful part regarding deposit releases and working out amounts for damages/compensation. E.g. you cannot have replacement value for anything even if it was brand new at start of tenancy, as this would be regarded as "betterment". You can only have a percentage value dependant on condition at start of tenancy (which they must prove using the inventory from the start of the tenancy) and expected life of the item. (http://www.arla.co.uk)

I will be in a position to demonstrate that it was unreasonable for you to keep my deposit, should you be unable to produce requested evidence and should matters proceed to court action.

I have already spoken to LANDLORDS WIFE and requested receipts or invoices for work carried out. You have not responded and the amount withheld by you is still not properly accounted for.

As the landlord you must remember, as it is the tenant’s money, you have to account for it properly. It is a very common misconception, that the deposit belongs to the landlord- it is not so and withholding of it without proper validation is illegal

I would like to inform you that I expect your reply to arrive no later than within a fortnight of the postmark. If no reply received, then county court action will be instigated. The court can order you to pay the deposit back and the proceedings are very straightforward. You may also be ordered to pay my court costs.

I sincerely advise you to comply with my request. From my extensive research, the courts are very sympathetic to tenants whose landlords do not follow good practice guidelines and do not fulfill statutory requirements regarding issues of deposits.


I look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.




Russellhq



P.S.

A copy has been sent to LETTING AGENT for their reference.

Below is the breakdown the landlord sent to the letting with regards to deductions:

Replace bedroom 2 carpet: £284 seems excessive for a couple cigarette burns and a room 3mx3m
Replace bedroom 2 matress: £220 seems excessive for a couple cigarette burns considering matress look like it cost £100 new.  Cheapest looking matress I'd ever seen and looked worn out after just one year of normal use.  Springs showing through etc.
3 nr. light shades: £21 They were there when i left
2 nr. Pillows: £19.88 They were there when i left
3 nr. mugs: £8 Fair
Replace missing cutlery: £25 They were there when i left
Replace bedroom 1 table lamp: £25 Lamp was broken
labour costs: £150 no idea what this is for
Add for cleaning: £150 Flat was cleaned before we left

What steps should I take now? I want to show that I've given them a fair chance if it gets to court. Should I write giving them an offer and 7 days before sending a letter before action?

What issues can arise due to the fact that the landlord lives in England and I live in Scotland where I rented. Property manager is in Scotland.

[callumsgran]

This would be covered by scottish law!
i would say they are liable to replace the 'cheap' mattresses anyway after a reasonable time also they can be picked up for £30 each if they are replacing like with like and £20 for 2 pillows, they're having a laugh!!!

[russellhq]

OK, so I take then to scottish courts. The deposit was £900 and I believe that the small claims limit is £750 in scotland. This means I could be liable for costs if it goes to court and lose?


What steps should I take now, I've allready sent the request and their 14 days is up. Should I make them an offer and 7 days before I send a LBA? I'm totally new to all this.

[callumsgran]

If it were me i would write and ask them to pay £750 and accept that you will pay £150 towards damages.
Then if no response just claim £750 at court, makes things a lot easier dont you think?

[MrShed]

Originally Posted by amartin1908

Your contract is with the letting agent so it is up to him to return your deposit and whatever their arguments with the owner are, are of no concern to you.

Hmmm....need to correct you there. ANY deposit issues, the LANDLORD MUST BE SUED. You have NO contract with the letting agents, they merely act as agents for the landlord, your contract is with the landlord. If you sue the agents, any claim will fail.

[russellhq]

Was just what I was thinking. Will send them out a letter tomorrow and await a reply. 7 days should be long enough given I moved out at the end of May.

[russellhq]

Any opinions on the following letter?

Dear Sir,


Following the last letter I sent you dated 09/10/2006 I have yet to receive a response from yourself regarding the matter of the unreturned deposit. Having received your breakdown of costs from Edzell with no receipts or invoices to back up the claims I simply cannot accept them.


I am prepared to offer you £150 as full and final settlement compared to your figure of £866.88, which I find is grossly inflated compared to the actual cost that would be considered fair and reasonable.


I expect your reply to arrive no later than 7 days from the postmark of this letter. If you cannot meet the requests of this and previous letters then I will have no choice but to start court action at which point all offers with be withdrawn.


Again, I sincerely advise you to reply with my requests as courts are very sympathetic to tenants whose landlords do not follow good practice guidelines and do not fulfill statutory requirements regarding issues of deposits.


I look forward to hearing from you within 7 days,


Regards,





RussellHQ

P.S. I have enclosed a copy of the later dated 09/10/2006.