redecorating at end of tenancy

[billyboggins]

hi folks,my first post on this site would appreciate your comments on my situation

i lived in a rented property for over 6 years in a small village in norfolk,we had always paid the rent on time never had any problems of any kind with the landlord .when we moved out he inspected the property and said it was in good clean condition,however he now wants us to pay for redecorating the property as it was not left in the same colour as when we moved in,we had decorated not in magnolia but in subtle shades of neutral colours.Our tenancy agreement says that we must leave the property in a condition agreeable to the landlord(surely an unfair term?)i have now been contacted by the landlord who is now threatening to take me to the conty court,i am tempted to let him do that or may consider paying him in instalments just to get him off my back, but this goes against the grain with me.Does he have any legal right ?

[old_andrew2007]

I would say your landlord is trying it on, the house is clean and decorated I would write to him pointing this out.

[Planner]

Did you get the lanldord permsssion to redecorate? and in a different colour?

If not then he maybe entitled to make some deduction from the deposit.

[billyboggins]

what do you base your answer upon?
there is no clause in my tenancy agreement that says i must ask his permission nor does it say anywhere that i should pay for redecorating ,there is no inventory to say what the original colours were and he said upon inspection that the house was clean and tidy

[Planner]

Originally Posted by billyboggins

what do you base your answer upon?
there is no clause in my tenancy agreement that says i must ask his permission nor does it say anywhere that i should pay for redecorating ,there is no inventory to say what the original colours were and he said upon inspection that the house was clean and tidy

I just made it up.

[billyboggins]

does anybbody have anything more usefull to add to this? ...the landlord has now decided to take me to court

[Steve__M]

Do you mean he has issued a claim, or that he has written a final demand letter?

What is he claiming, and what does he say?

[MrShed]

The landlord is entitled to the return of the property in the same condition that it was let in(minus fair wear and tear). This includes having the property back in the same state of decoration that it was. If not, then the landlord is entitled to deduct from the deposit/charge/sue for the cost of returning the property to this condition.

[Just4Let]

"Did you get the lanldord permsssion to redecorate? and in a different colour?
If not then he maybe entitled to make some deduction from the deposit. "


I think Planner's comment was a valid one, here's the terms in my agreement

• Not to carry out any redecoration of the said premises or any part thereof without the previous consent in writing of the Landlord / Agent and in case of any breach of this stipulation the Tenant shall be responsible for the entire cost of redecoration at the expiration or sooner determination of this Tenancy.

Nothing wrong with this clause at all.

Prevents people painting walls purple and black!!! Trust me we've had a black ceiling!!!!!

We also stipulate in our letter of confirmation of the permission for this that the works be undertaken by a professional painter & decorator.
Again, this is to prevent awful DIYers attempting to do it badly. (again we've come across this and it can cost an arm and a leg to put right)

Obviously the LL can't expect to receive the property back in a better condition than you took this on so I'd suggest you have a chat with him about this maybe suggesting it looks better now?

All in all the posts prior to this one are absolutely correct insomuch as the property 'should' be returned to the original condition, if it's not, then he has every right to chase you for the money to do this.

[Steve__M]

I think I'm going to disagree with the experts here. I may be wrong, but bear with my argument.

I'd suggest it depends on whether the landlord has discussed redecoration with the tenant during the 6 year tenancy, and whether the landlord has himself organised redecoration. If he has not (and billyboggins needs to confirm) then I'd say the following:

billyboggins had lived in the property for 6 years. Reasonably the landlord should have redecorated during the term, or have expected to redecorate at the end of the term.

For example, if the OP had never redecorated, the property would likely be in dire need of redecoration now.

I light of billy's statement that colours are neutral, and the implication that there are no black ceilings or purple walls (what's wrong with that anyway ) the cost of redecoration to the landlord is not affected.

I would defend by saying that the property was in need of redecoration, the landlord did not do it, and what the tenant has done in no way affects the necessary cost that the landlord would have had to bear now in redecorating.

[Steve__M]

just4let, I'd like to suggest that your term would be unfair unless there were a balancing clause that allowed the tenant to claim back costs of necessary redecoration in the event it were required.

I also think insisting on professionals is also unfair unless the landlord is prepared to contribute reasonable costs. Decorating is not rocket science, and amateurs are often better than professionals. In a house I rented we fitted a smoke alarm, and the "professional" decorator painted around it meaning that there was a hole in the ceiling paint when we moved out! Anyway - off topic so I'll leave it there.

[MrShed]

If there was no conversation with the landlord to ask him to redecorate, then he has not been given an opportunity to do this himself. In any event, this needed to be discussed with the landlord.

As per any "disrepair" issue, you cannot just perform work without prior notifying the landlord at the very least. And this isnt disrepair.

[Steve__M]

Originally Posted by MrShed

If there was no conversation with the landlord to ask him to redecorate, then he has not been given an opportunity to do this himself. In any event, this needed to be discussed with the landlord.

As per any "disrepair" issue, you cannot just perform work without prior notifying the landlord at the very least. And this isnt disrepair.

I agree with these points and would be annoyed if I visited my lovely newly painted house and found the white walls had been repainted yellow by the tenants.

But in this case the tenant could at least reasonably argue the landlord has suffered no loss in the tenant doing this and is therefore entitled to no damages. Be interesting to see where it got him.

billy, how much is the landlord claiming?

[Just4Let]

Originally Posted by Steve__M

just4let, I'd like to suggest that your term would be unfair unless there were a balancing clause that allowed the tenant to claim back costs of necessary redecoration in the event it were required.

I also think insisting on professionals is also unfair unless the landlord is prepared to contribute reasonable costs. Decorating is not rocket science, and amateurs are often better than professionals. In a house I rented we fitted a smoke alarm, and the "professional" decorator painted around it meaning that there was a hole in the ceiling paint when we moved out! Anyway - off topic so I'll leave it there.

How's this?

• To notify the Landlord, or the Landlord's Agent, promptly in writing of any disrepair, damage or defect in the Property or of any event which causes damage to the Property or which may give rise to a claim under the insurance of the Property.

• Should repairs become necessary for which the Tenant is not liable hereunder forthwith to notify the Landlord / Agent thereof and in no circumstance shall the Tenant arrange or give instructions for any such repairs to be carried out except at the written request of the Landlord / Agent and the Tenant shall be responsible for the cost of any repairs carried out in breach of this provision.

[MrShed]

Originally Posted by Steve__M

I agree with these points and would be annoyed if I visited my lovely newly painted house and found the white walls had been repainted yellow by the tenants.

But in this case the tenant could at least reasonably argue the landlord has suffered no loss in the tenant doing this and is therefore entitled to no damages. Be interesting to see where it got him.

billy, how much is the landlord claiming?

Unfortunately, there IS a loss. The landlord is absolutely entitled to return the decor of the property to its pre-let status - whether or not the current decor is adequate. If this is done, then the tenant is liable for the cost.

Of course, many landlords will not bother redecorating provided that the decor is tasteful. This is fine, but they still have the RIGHT to return the property to its prior condition - it is just that they choose not to.

[callumsgran]

I dont see there is a loss, i agree with steve m the landlord would have to expect to decorate anyway after 6 yrs
The only 'loss' he may incur is if the tenants had painted in bright, gaudy or dark colours and he would have to use an extra coat of paint to cover
Myself as a tenant would fight this all the way

[MrShed]

How can you say there is no loss? There is no legal requirement for the landlord to redecorate every 6 years whatsoever.