Tenants rights?

[casey]

At the beginning of June I started to sub rent some storage space from a tenant. It was the owner of the property that made the arrangements. It was for the storage of books and it took me a considerable amount of time and energy to move.
I have no formal agreement.

Then I am told that the owner has sold the property and the tenant and I were given 3 weeks to move out.
I have been finding it difficult to find somewhere else. We are buying our own place but will probably be 5/6 weeks before this happens.
In the meantime we have found that I cannot access the premises because of the entrance being waterlogged. The owner is now threatening to throw out all my books. He had promised when I moved in that I could have it as long as I needed - I had his word for it.
We have found out that he is not selling at all.
We were due to go away on holiday - our first real holiday for 18 years but have now had to abandon this to sort out this situation.
The worst of this situation is that the owner is our next door neighbour.
Do I have any rights at all - is he allowed to just throw out all my books, especially as I cannot get into the property to remove them myself because of the waterlogging?

[foolishgirl]

Did the tenant have an agreement? If so, what were the terms of notice? (3 weeks sounds a bit odd)

If there was an agreement, is it possible you were named as a 'permitted occupant' on it rather than a sub-let? That, in effect, means that when the tenant goes, you also have to go.

Unfortunately 'words' don't count for much when things go wrong

[casey]

Yes, the tenant had an agreement for 4 weeks notice but the notice was not given to her until a week later.
The very same neighbour owes us several thousand pounds and has done for around five years. He keeps fobbing us off by saying he will pay when he sells his land. I think the time has now come to give him an ultimatum and take court action against him. We have been treading carefully up to now because he owes us money but enough is enough now.

[foolishgirl]

There are very strict rules governed by statute regarding tenancy agreements & in particular the serving of the notice to quit that has to be served in a written format within specified time limits.

The main legislation is the Housing Act but other statutes can also come into play. From what you say your landlord seems to have fallen foul of them & there are severe penalties for so doing.

It would also seem he has, or is about to, contravene the Torts (Interferance with Goods) Act 1977 under which a tenant's property is protected.

Also, did the tenant pay a deposit when the tenancy agreement was signed?

Added to all this you seem to have the matter of unpaid debts. Again, have you any written agreement with him regarding these?

Without access to all the documents it is difficult to assess your position & I would suggest that as you seem to have so many overlapping issues you & the tenant initially contact CAB immediately, taking along copies of any documents in your possession.

[casey]

I maybe omitted to mention that this does not come under the housing act. It is a stables/outbuildings and I rented a storage space. There is no accommodation on the site other than the tenant's own caravan.
Don't know about whether or not she paid a deposit.
She now has to find accommodation for herself, her horses and numerous other animals and all her personal possessions; she is really in a far worse position than I am.
With regard to debts my husband carried out work requested by the owner over a period of about two years. We also had a considerable amount of expenses for which he has paid not one penny. I don't think that there is any problem establishing that he did carry out the work at the request of the owner - it is well documented although there is no formal agreement. He has insisted that he will pay more when the land is sold but it does not seem that this will be soon and I am well aware that we now need to act quickly before six years.
He never gave us the option of being paid at the time or having a greater amount later - just told us what he was going to do.
I feel that we are about the only neighbours he has not fallen out with yet - even his own family will not have anything to do with him.

[foolishgirl]

Sorry casey, I assumed it was residential property as you mentioned a neighbour.

Commercial property comes under different regs. etc. &, as you say it is stables, it is could even be classed as 'agricultural'.

Unfortunately I know nothing about that area but you could try bumping this to a mod. who might. Press the triangle button & see if anybody has any knowledge/advice.

Sounds as though you have the misfortune to be dealing with a tricky guy - wishing you luck.

[casey]

I don't think the tenant wants to pursue the matter - she just wants to see the back of him. She is having to get rid of some of her animals and either live in her motor caravan or rent a house. She does feel that although her agreement does say a month's notice she does need two months' notice by law but she really now wants to move as soon as possible.
He is a neighbour to us at our home. The property in question is half a mile away from home.
I have now managed to get access to the property and managed to move some of my books although it was touch and go whether or not I got stuck in the mud. Not able to move the rest at the moment as we're building a shed and hopefully will be done in time to move the rest before the end of the month.
The books are the contents of my bookshop that I rented - I paid rent for two and a half years and was waiting all this time for the electric supply to be connected. Eventually I was asked to move out while the walls were rebuilt and the electric restored (there was a flood which was why electric disconnected). In the meantime I found temporary storage but then I found in the newspaper that someone else was moving in (another long story and one that caused uproar in our village as nobody wanted it).
The did not even have the decency to tell me that I wasn't moving back and did not even refund my deposit. The temporary storage I moved into was eventually sold and the new owners are going to redevelop. They gave me plenty of notice to move out.
Hence the reason I moved into my neighbour's property. He knew the previous problems I had and assured me that I could stay as long as I wanted.
This latest is all because he can get more money by running the property himself (or so he thinks!)
I have vowed never again to rent property which is why we are buying our own and made an offer on a property in April but this has taken an extraordinarily long time to get the contracts which have apparently just arrived this week but not in time to move into before I have to move out!!!

[foolishgirl]

Oh dear, what a tale of woe - my sympathies.

BUT if the tenant doesn't want to take action & you have no tenancy agreement, don't think you'll get v. far.

However perhaps you should investigate the possibility of getting some compensation for not having electricity, the flood etc. when YOU were a tenant but you really need someone to look at all your agreements, history etc. - make an appt. at the local CAB, they may be able to advise the best way forward.

Re. the money you are owed by this guy, if you are sure you can prove it, I would not hesitate to send him an LBA letter & then a County Court summons if he doesn't pay up. It's a very simple process & you can always post here if you get stuck on the procedures. However you may be wise to wait until you & your possessions are moved away from his property...

[casey]

I don't think I really want to do anything about the bookshop (no electric etc.) as too much time has passed now (about 4 years) and just want to put that behind me.
I'm not really bothered about moving out of the stables -it really was inconvenient - but the timing could have been a bit better - not coinciding with our holiidays and until we have completed on our property - although there is a bit to do before I can move in. (it's only the size of a single garage but we can get another storey in). Then I can get on with selling my books again instead of just taking them for a ride!!!!!
I can hardly move this morning - having to move heavy books when you're in a hurry so hope I can keep going until I've got them all moved. The only thing that worries me is that he might throw them out even before the end of the month.
Anyway, many thanks for all your advice - will let you know what happens.
Might even have to get the police involved as he has now taken to going up to his window to close his curtains with no clothes on. Not seen it myself but the children came in screaming about it.

[foolishgirl]

Originally Posted by casey

he has now taken to going up to his window to close his curtains with no clothes on.

Bet that's a sight for sore eyes!!

Wishing you well...FG

[casey]

Although he's been here 10/15 years this is only a recent occurence and cannot help thinking that there's more to his state of mind!