i paid all rent - mortgage arrears eviction ??

[angry678]

I've got a troubling letter today and would like to know what my rights are.

The facts :

- I moved in my appartment, which i found through letting agency Pace PLC in october 2006.

- I paid my rent every month and haven't missed a single payment.

- februari 2008 i got a letter from Elson estate agents saying they've taking over several lettings from Pace, and i now have to deal with them.

- So as of that date i payed my monthly rent to Elson, and again haven't missed a single payment.


Occasionly i would get a letter in my mailbox with my adress but a different name (had 5 different names so far) and they always were bills for the previous owner(s)/tentans of this place. I always called the company the letter came from (vodaphone, Eon electricity) stating i've lived there since october 2006 and have no idea who or where the person listed on the letter now is. I would simply fax my letting agreement (stating the date in moved in) and that usually did the trick.

Today i got a letter from HL Interactive solicitors to my adress, but with once again a different name, and it states :

Do not ignore this letter.
Redstone mortagages PLC is bringing proceedings for the possession of your home.
This letter provides you with a last opportunity to do something to prevent this from happening.

Morgage property: my adress
Terms of mortgage breached : Arrears in mortgage payments.
Current Arrears : £ 2,939.22 , Current monthly payment: £979,74

This firm has been instructed to commence possession proceedings on behalf of redstone mortgages plc because :

- in the past several months redstone mortgages plc has made a number of attempts to come to a satisfactory arrangement to clear the arrears of payments in respect of the above mortgage loan.
- Agreements have not been maintained or forthcoming and the decision to commence proceedings has therefore been taken.

To avoid any continuing action by redstone mortgages plc you must :

- Clear the outstanding arrears in full within 7 days of this letter.
- You should also use this period to clarify any issues or questions you may have. If you are not sure what to do, you should get help as soon as possible. For example, you should contact a solicitor, your local trading standards department or your nearest citizens advice bureau.
- If you have requested a redemption statement during the last month, this wil now be out of date and a new one should be requested.


I don't even have a mortgage, i rent this place, and i've always payed my rent in time, so to me it doesn't seem fair that because this other ****** doesn't pays his bills bailifs can come in here and take my stuff.

So i just took the letter to Elson estage agent who are going to look into it (apperently they had similar problems with a couple other properties) and call me back later, but the guy i spoke to was very vague about it and said something about landlords and paying up and they can do that.

What rights as a tenant do i have ? They can't just tell me you've got 7 days to get all your stuff out because someone else hasn't paid his mortgage now can they ? That would be ridicilous!

[MrShed]

This is one of those exceptions to the rule. I am not sure on the exact procedure/timescales etc, but the creditor CAN in fact have you removed from the property in a pretty quick timescale. I think you need to be alert to the fact that you may need to move pretty quickly in the not too distant future(although not within 7 days - this is merely a timescale for them to begin legal action). It is basically because the landlord in fact "sublets" the property in effect.

[rippedoffagain]

If the mortgagee (house owner) fails to pay the mortgage, then the mortgage company will proceed with repossession. I would have thought that you could sue the other parties concerned, landlord or either agent, for compensation.

The mortgage company are probably unaware that this is a BTL. (Buy to Let).

[angry678]

But that sounds ridicilous to me, if i paid all my rent and got a rent agreement, how can they just kick me out ?

That really doesn't seem fair.

Originally Posted by MrShed

It is basically because the landlord in fact "sublets" the property in effect.

Could you clarify that a little bit perhaps, i'm Dutch (moved to England 1 month before i moved in this property, september 2006) so have some trouble with some terms.

I believe the building (8 floors, 6 apparments per floor) is owned by some company called Dedmans, so they are the landlord then ?

I pay my estage agent monthly, and i assume they then pay the landlord, so i can't really see where it all goes wrong.

[MrShed]

I agree it is not fair, but I am not here to discuss the fairness of the law, only to advise you of it.

The landlord owns the property, and lets it to you. However, as they have a mortgage on the property, the "ownership" basically remains with the mortgage company, who grant the landlord permission to "sublet" the property.

[angry678]

Originally Posted by MrShed

The landlord owns the property, and lets it to you. However, as they have a mortgage on the property, the "ownership" basically remains with the mortgage company, who grant the landlord permission to "sublet" the property.

But then if the landlord doesn't pay his bills, why doesn't the mortgage company goes after him, instead of the property ?

If they know he sublets it, they must know he doesn't life here and i assume they have his personal adress then, so why not go and claim there for their money, instead of come down at someone who doesn't have anything to do with this ?

[MrShed]

Because the debt is secured on the property. We can "discuss" this to death if you want, but it wont change the situation....

[angry678]

No i believe you, but i'm just shocked with disbelieve this can happen.

I never had to deal with anything like this, and i'm shocked i can just be kicked out because someone else doesn't pays his bills.

Is there nothing i can do about this ? Like take the landlord to court ? "I paid, i've got an year's rental agreement here, you got me into trouble, you sort it out!" kinda thing ?

[rippedoffagain]

Yes, you can sue the landlord for compensation.

[MrShed]

Agree with ROA. I just dont want you to get "distracted" by the unfairness, as it CAN and WILL happen, so your efforts are better applied to resolving the situation as best for you if that makes sense.

But yes, if this causes you ACTUAL FINANCIAL LOSS, then as the landlord has been unable to fulfil his obligations under the contract you are entitled to the actual financial loss the breach of contact has caused you.

[angry678]

I appreciate the swift replies guys.

Originally Posted by MrShed

But yes, if this causes you ACTUAL FINANCIAL LOSS, then as the landlord has been unable to fulfil his obligations under the contract you are entitled to the actual financial loss the breach of contact has caused you.

I have to move against my will, for which i have to take days of work, and i have to rent some sort of van to remove all my stuff, can i claim that as financial loss, as it´s not my choice to move at all, i really like where i am now.

[MrShed]

Yes that would all be classed as actual financial loss - time off work, rental of van. What I mean by actual financial loss is that you almost certainly are NOT entitled to punitive/non-financial damages - i.e. compensation for stress/distress etc etc - it has to be loss that can be quantified.

BUT, and this is a big but, bear in mind that if the landlord is in financial difficulties enough to allow repossession, your chances of being able to enforce any judgement are slim indeed.

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

If the mortgagee (house owner) fails to pay the mortgage, then the mortgage company will proceed with repossession. I would have thought that you could sue the other parties concerned, landlord or either agent, for compensation.

The mortgage company are probably unaware that this is a BTL. (Buy to Let).

There is legal precedent though that if the mortgage company have given permission for the owner to rent out the property, then they are beholden to the tenancy agreement. Thus you need to find out if they gave permission.

You need to make direct contact with the mortgage company anyway (don't go through the agent - they may not act in your best interest) and see if they will accept rent payments direct. In this credit crunch times, with house prices dropping, if they evict you they might not be able to sell anyway. This may work in your favour as they then might be more amenable to receive rent direct.

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

Yes, you can sue the landlord for compensation.

Correct. But whether this is worthwhile is debatable - owners in this situation often don't have any assets, so trying to get money even if you sue and win the case is not guaranteed (especially if the owner goes bankrupt)

[angry678]

Little update.

I started looking for a new place to life and found something nice, where i'm moving into next week.

My rent in the old property always was due on the 18th, however i haven't paid the last month (18 august till 18 september) as i don't think it is fair that the landlord hasn't paid since februari so i don't feel i should be now either.

My estate agent was on holiday and i couldn't consult him, so what i wanted to do was :

So i could either

- Pay the 675 rent for 18 aug till 18 sep
- move out on the 1st of september, and get the 675 deposit back
- and claim for those 18 days i haven't lived there (till 18 september)

Or :

- Don't pay for 18 aug till 18 september, so i don't lose my deposit.
- move out on the 1st of september, and then claim back those last 18 days i don't life in the property.

I chose for the 2nd option, as i needed the pay the rent + deposit (+ admin fee + property check fee) for the new property.

However now my estage agent got back and send me this email :

Officially you have to give a months notice to vacate the flat from the date of your tenancy agreement, yours is the 18th. So you have gone over that date but in this instance I am prepared for you to back date that to the 18th August unless you are giving it on the 18th September, it needs to be in writing. An email will suffice.

As to the rent, that is still payable, the landlord is aware you will be vacating and is insisting the rent is paid up to date when you leave, I presume you were aware of this anyway.


So how should i respond now ?

I don't think the landlord has any right to "demand" anything, he made his last payment febuari last year (payment for several months in advance) but is at least 6 months behind now!
Plus he didn't send me the parking permit once it had to be renewed, eventhough i'd been asking for it (in writing, email and phone) for weeks, and i ended up with a parking ticket, as he couldn't be bothered to send me the permit.

I'm moving out on the 1st, i'm not intend to pay any rent as which shouldn't matter to the estate agent as that rent is the same amount as the deposit i otherwise would have gotten back.

The landlord caused all this trouble, not me.

Is there anything the estate agent can do if i refuse to pay this month rent ? And how should i put this in an email that i won't pay for this month ?

Cheers in advance,

[MrShed]

Until possession is granted to the mortgage company, you owe rent to the landlord. You also need to give a months notice at least to end at the end of a rental period, unless it is the end of a fixed term.

I'm afraid the estate agent/landlord would appear to have you bang to rights here.

[angry678]

Originally Posted by MrShed

Until possession is granted to the mortgage company, you owe rent to the landlord. You also need to give a months notice at least to end at the end of a rental period, unless it is the end of a fixed term.

I'm afraid the estate agent/landlord would appear to have you bang to rights here.

Normally one pays rent because the landlord has to pay the mortgage, and he uses that money to do so.

So if the landlord doesn't pay his mortgage, why do i need to pay the rent ? he's not paying, so why so i ?

And i should you would only give notice when you wanted to move out (as in "i want to move out in 2 month so therefor i give you this notice).
I don't want to move out, i'm beeing forced to. The landlord told me to find alternative property, so it's not my choice, and it's on his advice.

So if he tells me "landlord has no money, is not paying, you need to move out", why do i still need to tell him "i want to move out, here is my notice" ??


And how can one be expected to pay rent for the one property, and at the same time has to cough up admin costs, rent + deposit (so actually 3 times a month rent) for the other property on 1 month wage ?

It all doesn't make sence and it's not fair. Well i've already paid the rent + deposit for that new place, and there's no money left to pay rent for this asshole that makes me move out and isn't paying either, so guess i'll just see how that ends.