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Residential and Commercial Lettings This is the place for both Landlords and Tenants to discuss letting issues, and share experiences.


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Old 9th July 2008, 15:13   #1 (permalink)
troubleshootin pete
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Default Deposit deductions

Hello,

Sorry to be posting so negatively to begin with, but i have some questions about attemped deductions from my deposit.

1. there was no inventory. can items claimed as 'missing' be enforced?? (we were actually told we could throw out these items if we wanted and that they just hadn't been got rid of yet)

2. unreasonable replacement cost of a particular fitting. if I can show what something costs, can it be billed at nearly 15 times the price???

3. 'labour' done by landlord. exact nature is unspecified, but is presumed to apply across a list of items, some disputed, some not. landlord is extremely unlikely to be VAT registered and has not invoiced these amounts or specified an hourly rate, merely demanded an amount. Can a landlord charge for his own labour (ie, not that of a third party contractor) in this manner?

4. the grounds originally (when we moved in) were full of the landlord's rubbish from renovation. we disposed of this for free as a favour. we left less stuff than the landlord had in the grounds when we left, presuming the favour would be returned. we are being billed. the neighbours are willing to provide evidence in our favour. are we likely to be upheld?

sorry about this spewing of troubles, but i hope someone can help!
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Old 9th July 2008, 15:26   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

1) Only with proof of them being missing which will be difficult without an inventory.
2) Depends on the item. They are entitled to charge fitting.
3) Yes he can, but it has to be on an hourly rate. I believe the courts will allow around £9.25 ph.
4) He is allowed to bill for that unfortunately.
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Old 9th July 2008, 15:32   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

thanks mr shed, even if it's not good news!

2. a flourescent light tube. not the most complicated of items to fit.
4. i guess we'll just have to contest then.

finally, LL has been in touch complaining about time taken by TDS people turning round so far. he seems bemused that we are disputing any of his 'claims', and asks if i'd like to talk about it. is such a conversation outside of the scheme a good idea? i'm all for healthy negotiation if it's not going to backfire on me...
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Old 9th July 2008, 15:40   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

How much is he asking for for the tube?

Fine to have the discussion, just give him nothing in writing.
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Old 9th July 2008, 15:47   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

about £45 for a regular 5' tube. quite a large markup.

does email count as 'in writing'? i believe opinion is split on this score...
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Old 9th July 2008, 16:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

Yes it does.

Thats EXCESSIVE. I would suggest £10-15.
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Old 9th July 2008, 16:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

ok, so no email correspondence that i wish to be held to.

i agree about the tube! £10-15 still seems a little high to me, but i would swallow that.

the conversation i was considering having was along the lines of agreeing to accept x and y but disputing z for such and such a reason. given that i would readily agree to being billed for the items i am prepared to accept, is this a dangerous communication? the items i am not disputing i woudl have made good myself but time did not permit...
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Old 9th July 2008, 16:30   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

I would advise at this stage to agree to nothing in writing/email UNLESS the ENTIRE offer is adequate.
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Old 10th July 2008, 15:37   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

I started another thread on this (http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/151374-final-inspections-where-one.html) but here is what I put:

Final Inspections where one party is absent and other deposit woes.
Sorry to start another thread, but after a bit of reading around, I have begun thinking we may have another problem.

In a nutshell:

1. property was on AST, ie there was a definite date when the tenancy ended

2. a generic notice to quit was in force to prevent tenancy becoming 'periodic' via roll-on in the absence of a new agreement. No new contract had been signed.

3. LL expressed surprise that we were planning to move out on or before the date the AST expired, not having signed a new contract with him, despite having issued a notice to quit to ensure we could not move onto a periodic tenancy.

4. LL had booked a holiday (apparently) clashing with the date the contract on his rental property expired, meaning that he could not be around on moving out day, but 'offered' to inspect while showing people round a week before ON THE DAY WE WERE DOING THE MAIN MOVING OUT. Unsurprisingly, it was a little messy at this point. Neither of the tenants were present at this point as they were with the removal van.

5. Subsequently, I believe inspection proper has been carried out after we were moved out and had returned keys.

6. There are a variety of issues with his findings, I agree with some of the deductions but not all by any stretch.

Does this have an impact on the approach I should be taking? He seems to be trying to get me to tell him by email outside of the DPS dispute system what I have a problem with and what I don't, which Mr Shed thinks I should avoid doing.

The bulk of the disputed element is made up of charges for disposal of things we left in the grounds, which were less than things he left for us to dispose of, which we did without complaint and to which neighbours will attest. Other items that will be disputed are such as things apparently 'missing', which would be extremely hard to prove as there was no inventory, and we had been verbally told that these also were things that he just hadn't got rid of yet, that we could dispose of as we wished.

I strongly suspect that this is going to go the whole way, so I just want to be sure of our ground in advance. Advice on landlord forums points that the non-inventory items are a complete non-starter and that labour charges by a non-professional could be icky too.

As an aside, elsewhere on the landlord forums, someone is advised that they can't write down 'labour' by them on 'property maintenance' as a deduction on their tax return as it isn't taxed. Surely if it is earned income (and I would like to know how 'labour' could not be 'earned') it is subject to tax? Or does this mean that it is acceptable to pocket a large lump of rental deposit through this 'charge' tax-free?

All help greatfully appreciated!

TP.

Hope I haven't upset anyone!

Last edited by troubleshootin pete; 10th July 2008 at 15:39. Reason: Adding hyperlink that wasn't on clipboard
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Old 10th July 2008, 16:14   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

Copied from my other post:

Quote:
- Landlord is fully entitled to check the property after you have moved out, and without you present.

- You are paraphrasing me slightly. I see no issue in confirming in writing what you are NOT happy with. I just think you should make no concessions in writing (i.e. "I am happy to pay for X damage").

- There is no issue with non-professional labour, but it cannot be charged at a professional rate. £9.25 PH. I believe I said this on your other thread.

- I also addressed the inventory question on your other thread and I do not intend to answer it again here.

- The labour charge by them is judged to be at their "cost price" and as such would advise it isnt EARNINGS.


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Old 10th July 2008, 16:53   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deposit deductions

sorry, I knew i needed to make another edit!
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