CheckOut Compared to Wrong CheckIn

[MikeBob]

I was unable to attend the check out of my previous property but the landlord was present. I received the report a couple of weeks later and a list of charges by the landlord for repairs, etc. I dispute these charges but on inspection the CheckOut had the condition on CheckIn date listed 6months before we moved in. So the entire CheckOut was compared to the previous tennants move in.

I offered the landlord an amount for the very few things we did do. He rejected and said he was getting the inventory company to produce another report. I have now received this report with the following:

"The property was not revisited however the Check-Out comments have been matched from the incorrect Check-In Schedule to the correct schedule and recalculated using the guidelines of fair wear and tear/chargeable to tenant."

I dispute whether they can even do this as it is hard to compare the condition just looking at a few statements. Also whole new things have been added like non working lightbulbs and non clean floors which wasnt contained in the original (incorrectly dated) checkout. I suspect the landlord has been demanding extra changes.

So i wondering what my best course of action is?

[Esio Trot]

Sounds like you are on a loser here.

The owner has used an independent company, and although they used the wrong report, they have now adjusted this to suit.

If your deposit comes under the new deposit protection schemes, then you can ask for independent adjudications. I don't think you will win though, as missing light bulbs and cleanliness fall 100% under the outgoing tenant, unless such were itemised at the check-in.

[Hobbie]

Mikebob,

I tend to have to agree with Esio Trot, that your on a loser here, as the outside company have admitted an error, but have adjusted it to suit the needs regardless.

Best of luck though, and keep us informed.

[MikeBob]

The deposit is in a new deposit protection scheme.

Ignoring the date mistake, I am annoyed the landlord is able to demand alterations to the report and the inventory company just blindly agree. We both paid for this report and why cant I as the tenant have changes made too? I have asked the inventory company, they haven't replied yet.

The initial report stated the walls were as we moved in: scuffed and marked. The landlord sent me this in part of an email between reports:
"...as you know I will have to incur costs to redecorate hallways , front reception and landings areas , so Ive asked them to ensure these areas are no overlooked either"
and unsurprisingly the new report lists the hallway in a worse state and chargeable to us. So not only have they adjusted the report they seem to have added extra stuff.

It just feels like the landlord and the inventory company are working together against me. I haven't come across this in the previous 5 places I have rented.

[Hobbie]

Mikebob,

A landlord can deduct from a deposit for "wear and tear" nor can a landlord use part or full amount of a deposit to improve the state of the property.

If you deposit is registered with Association of Residential Letting Agents then you may need to consider requesting them to investigate.

At the least it is showing the landlord that you are not going to sit back and allow him to push you about.

[waterbottle]

This kind of thing seems to happen a lot in lettings. Each person involved is basically on the side of the landlord and has an interest in making the tenant pay.

I would suggest that you dispute everything totally and think about a small claim.

Ask for a copy of the report they're using to amend your inventory. Later, you can explain that there was a passing of time between when the previous tenants moved out and you moved in. Therefore the check out report is irrelevant in this case as the landlord had access to the house. Does this make sense?

The above post mistyped. They CANNOT deduct for fair wear and tear or improvements.

Are you on any benefits? If you are on a low income you may qualify legal aid.

I would admit nothing to them with regards to what you failed to do.

Perhaps take it to Tenancy Deposit Scheme Arbitration. Investigate whether you have to accept their findings and whether by using them you will forfeit or damage chances when using court.

Did they register you deposit and inform you that they had done so within 14 days of receiving it? If they cannot prove this you may be able to make a claim for 3x the full deposit. The 14 days dates from the day they received the money not the day you moved in.

Post some info and we can get stuck in!

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by MikeBob

The deposit is in a new deposit protection scheme.

This sentence is key. Ignore the advice from the other posters after this - at least for the time being.

Each scheme has the facility for Alternative Dispute Resolution. Thus, for example, if your deposit was £500 and you disputed deductions of £200, then you would get £300 back with the remainder sent to the scheme (if an insurance based one) or retained if the DPS one.

Tell the landlord in writing that you dispute the deductions - the procedures for doing this are available from the scheme itself.

Both sides then submit their evidence and an independent adjudicator will rule 100% to one side or the other, or something in between.

If you have kept the e-mails or documentation from the landlord about the re-decoration, make sure you send this in as well.

[Steve__M]

Originally Posted by MikeBob

The deposit is in a new deposit protection scheme.

Ignoring the date mistake, I am annoyed the landlord is able to demand alterations to the report and the inventory company just blindly agree. We both paid for this report and why cant I as the tenant have changes made too? I have asked the inventory company, they haven't replied yet.

The initial report stated the walls were as we moved in: scuffed and marked. The landlord sent me this in part of an email between reports:
"...as you know I will have to incur costs to redecorate hallways , front reception and landings areas , so Ive asked them to ensure these areas are no overlooked either"
and unsurprisingly the new report lists the hallway in a worse state and chargeable to us. So not only have they adjusted the report they seem to have added extra stuff.

It just feels like the landlord and the inventory company are working together against me. I haven't come across this in the previous 5 places I have rented.

How long is it since the place was last decorated?

I ask because in a recent checkout I was told I could not charge much for the fact that the walls were filthy because "wear-and-tear" assumptions are that decoration takes place every 3 years!

eg. If the property were decorated a year ago and you are deemed to have done half of the "damage" you would be expected to pay half of 2/3 (because the property needs to be decorated 2 years early) of the cost - ie. 1/3 of the cost.

[Hobbie]

Originally Posted by waterbottle

The above post mistyped. They CANNOT deduct for fair wear and tear or improvements.

Ooops... Indeed I had mistyped it... how embarassing

Thanks for correcting it waterbottle.

TAXI FOR ONE!

[MikeBob]

The landlord sent an original list of deductions based on the incorrect report and I only disputed one item on there although I disputed the amounts. He wanted me to pay the full cost for replacement and cleaning of items that were dirty when we moved in.

After the new report he has sent me a a new list agreeing to my previous costs but adding new items so the amount owed tallies up to roughly the same as before. However, our tenancy agreement states he has 15 working days to notify us of deductions but these new ones are beyond this period.

So it seems to be me he is agreeing to our costs on the initial items and the new deductions are invalid due to the time constraint.

[Ed999]

Read this thread carefully: Unfair deposit deductions

The specimen LBA (letter before action) included in that thread sets out in detail your legal rights in a situation where the landlord is alleging that you caused damage or disrepair.


In addition to the matters set out in that thread -

1. Where you have actual evidence that the landlord looked at the condition of the property at the *wrong* time, i.e. looked at it as it was at the time of a previous letting to someone else, that is good evidence to put before the court if you sue or have to defend a claim. The fact that the landord has looked at the wrong inventory (or "Checkin report") is a potential winner!

Even if he later tried to claim that he had not looked at the wrong Inventory report, there remains a possibility that his feeble "explanation" might nevertheless be rejected by the court.

2. Another potential winner is that the landlord would not be allowed by the court to make any deduction for damage that already existed at the time you moved in. If you have documentary evidence of damage that existed as much as 6 months before you moved in, you can show that to the court as evidence that *you* did not cause that damage!

3. Also, you are right to rely on any provision in the contract that imposes a time limit on the landlord. Do not agree to give up that protection under any circumstances!


As the Tenancy Deposit Scheme provides you with the option of "alternative dispute resolution" you have the option to make a claim against the landlord for return of your deposit under the Scheme, i.e. without having to sue in the Small Claims court. See this thread: Tenancy Deposit Scheme

In that event, the functions of the court are handled by the ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) service, and the evidence you have obtained should be shown to the ADR adjudicator instead of to the court.


Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.