Should I sign the contract?

[happysmile]

Hello everybody,
I need your advice badly

I moved to a shared flat something like one month and a half ago (11th March on the contract, even though I actually moved in the next weekend but this is fair enough, I paid on the 11th).
I didn't sign a contract because they said they needed time for the lawyer to go through it (it seems to me that it is identical to my flatmate's contract) and I received it only last Sunday. I said I needed some time to go through it before signing it.

I have a single room, use of kitchen and bathroom (to share with landlord, landlady and other 2 girls - total 4 bedrooms in the flat), no use of living room, no use of back garden, I can't even invite people overnight.
This all was agreed verbally. Actually, I found out that I had no use of the living room only when I moved it. I also found out that £100 pw inclusive was not inclusive of internet, for which I have to pay extra 5£ per month. I know it's not enough, but I was very disappointed, since I think the room is quite expensive.

Anyway, an other thing verbally agreed was that in case I want to move out I have to give them 1 month notice.

Well, last Sunday I saw the contract. Luckily I didn't sign it. There are several things I am not sure about. I'll try to list them

1. At the beginning of the Assured shorthold tenancy agreement it says that the agreement may not be terminated early unless the agreement contain a break claus (which I didn't find) or written permission from the landlord.

2. Later, it says the contract is for 12 months, but we never agreed that verbally.

3. Also at the very beginning it says:
Where there is more than one tenant, all obligations, including those for rent and repairs can be enforced against all of the tenants jointly and against each individually.
Does it mean what I think? I never agreed that, and I don't know the other tenants. Why should I accept to pay if they damage something or not pay?

4. I read I should be provided a rent book, but I do not know what it looks like. I have the receipt for the deposit and the 2 weeks in advance, but I pay weekly cash in hand and with no receipt

5. It mentions that the content of the property is listed in the inventory, but I see no inventory anywhere

6. It says: Payment: £100 per week without specifying that it is inclusive of all bills, and it doesn's say anywhere about extra costs like internet.
Also, under "rent & charges", it says that I have to pay promplty to the authorities to whom they are due council tax, water and sewerage charges, gas, blah blah (long paragraph)

7. Not only it doesn't mention break clause and notice, but it also says:
If the tenant should not compolete the term of the tenancy, the tenant will be responsible for paying the rent until the property is relet and the associated reletting cost. The tenant should note that if the property cannot be relet for the remainder of the tenancy they will be responsible for the rent until the completion of this agreement.
I am sure they will tell me that I do not have to worry about that, but I cannot sleep if I sign something like that.

8. They even say I have to pay for all the cleaning services when I go away, included washing of carpet, curtains etc. I guess this is common in contracts, but I wonder if this is an excuse to take money from my deposit.

What do you think? What rights do I have?
If I don't sign, do I have to pay for the lawyer to rewrite the contract? Or can they send me away with no notice and/or keep my deposit (4 weeks, 400£)?

Thanks for your attention

Francesca

[Steve__M]

I'm not an expert. But the contract is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy and appears to be totally inappropriate for your situation.

Private rent and tenancies : Directgov - Home and community

It sounds like you are a lodger under which circumstances as long as you pay the rent and as long as the landlord/lady is happy for you to live there, you can stay. But they probably don't need you to sign a contract as you don't have security of tenure.

Hopefully others will chip in with better advice.

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by happysmile

I have a single room, use of kitchen and bathroom (to share with landlord, landlady and other 2 girls - total 4 bedrooms in the flat)

Provided that the landlord is resident in the property, you cannot in law have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. The contract is thus not worth the paper it is written on.

The downside is that you are no more than a licensee, and there is very little protection given you because the landlord lives there. You could arrive back one day and simply find your possessions piled up at the front door - and, surprisingly, you would be unlikely to be able to seek redress for this.

[happysmile]

So what's the meaning of the whole contract? Is it a lie that a lawyer went through it?
From the link Steve gave me it appears that
if you live with your landlord as a lodger and share living accommodation, this maybe known as a Non-Excluded Tenancy or Licence
I guess it means I have less right and I cannot have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy...
Should I move out asap? Will I ever the deposit back? Haha I guess you cannot answer this last question

[MARTIN3030]

Francesca you seem to have had a raw deal and certainly must be feeling it.
Theres others here who I am sure are more clued up in this area than me,and will be here to advise you on this.Only you can decide whether to get out quickly but there must be better options than where you are...as far as your deposit goes...There was a scheme set up I think last year which gives protection to deposits but I am not certain if this applies in your particular case.Be a little patient I think someone will clarify things for you.

I would also give a quick call to your local council housing office.They will be able to give you free advice and advise you.They are usually very good and know all the rules...they can even act on your behalf to resolve matters that are not above board or that go against the rules.Its their job to do it...they get paid to do it so use them !!

[happysmile]

Yes, to tell you the truth I do not want to rush.
I did it already when I moved to this place and this is the result.
I will definitely try to be patient
Anyway I will have to tell landlady tonight (I have to pay my 100£ without receipt) that I do not want to sign the contract for now, and that I am looking for advice.
Thanks a lot for your reply!
Francesca

[JonCris]

1st don't sign anything until you have had time to consider your next move after being given advice here or elsewhere....& most important of all you must get a receipt otherwise I feel you have no choice but refuse to hand the money over

I realize it won't be easy but for a landlord to take money without giving a receipt smacks of someone not to be trusted under any circumstances.

That coupled with the many surprises in the agreement makes me think you've got a wrong one there

[happysmile]

I thought it was normal not to have any receipt if you pay weekly, but I will try and ask tonight.
Thanks for your advice!
I will come back to this forum tonight, hope to hear from more people
Thank you all, this forum is incredible

[Alison82]

Make sure you get a receipt, you would get a receipt for your weekly shopping wouldn't you so get a receipt for the place you call home, cover your back.

If you can/want to find another place asap

[happysmile]

Yes, I sort of reached a compromise on that.
The lady sent me her husband to tell me they will give me a monthly receipt, even if I pay weekly. I accepted, better than nothing.
Anyway, I will hopefully talk to them tonight to discuss the contract.
Wish me luck

A minor question. Is it normal that I have to agree
to pay for any reasonable cleaning services that may be required to reinstate the Property to the same order that it was provided at the commencement of the tenancy including the washing or cleaning of all linen, bedding, carpets and curtans that shall have being soiled during the tenancy.
I mean, I thought that apart from hoovering, put the pieces of furniture back to the same place and washing the bedsheets I didn't have to do anything else. Unless I damage something.
What is a reasonable price in your opinion?
Is this an other little trick to take money from the deposit?

I know, there are much bigger issues I will have to discuss, anyway opinions are always welcome

Cheers,

Francesca

[JonCris]

Your being stiched up Fair wear & tear should be allowed for. Any accidental damage should be repaired by you

Only going to give you a receipt once a month cos you pay weekly!!!! Again your being stiched up......as has already been advised don't sign & make it a priority to try & find somewhere else to live........

[happysmile]

Thank so much to all of you for your opinions.

Yesterday I talked to landlord and he kept saying that I do not have to worry, that things like paying in case other tenants don't pay or make damages are not applicable to my case and blah blah blah.
I kept saying that if things are not applicable to my case (because the contract is for people who rent a whole flat) it would be possible to take them away, and he said that
this is a standard contract, if we modify it it's no longer valid
I almost laughed at him and said standard contracts have to be modified for specific cases, so after about half an hour of my requests and his objections ('don't worry about that, this is not applicable to your case', 'don't worry if it's written that you have to pay bills, have you ever paid for the bills so far?', 'we don't need to write you have to pay for internet, this is something we decided between us', 'I didn't add the break clause because if I had done it you would have been forced to stay at least 6 months, and even if the 1 month notice is not mentioned we agreed it verbally') he took my contract with all my notes (objections) and said he will talk to the lawyer and see what can be done.

Now tell me, how can a lawyer possibly give him that contract that as Esio Trot said above is not valid when the landlords live in?

I suspect he only pretends he knows what he talks about.
He said the only thing he's concerned about is that he wants 1 month notice. And this is not written anywhere in the contract.
I think it's still possible to sign and get away giving 1 month notice, still I am very annoyed. My flatmate signed without reading it, and now she is a bit worried. She wants to move out with friends of her, I wonder what will happen

Anyway, of course I want to change flat, but I have just moved in a rush once and I want to choose much much much more carefully. But it looked everything all right at the beginning!!!

Sorry for this long post. The only real question is:
do I have to expect a contract before moving in? I thought the receipt of rent in advance and deposit were enough.
Thanks for your attention!!!

[Aequitas]

There is no obligation on you to sign the agreement. You are in and have a tenancy. In no circumstances sign anything unless you are 100% happy with it and it contains everything you have agreed to.

If you pay rent weekly you are entitled to a rent book. It is the law. If the landlords fail to provide a rent book they are committing an offence.